Gakuen Mafia Season 2: School Festival [EP11]

lulu wrote:OK I WAS UP BRIEFLY FOR ROLLOVER AND I ENDED UP FALLING ASLEEP AGAIN BUT I AM NOW UP GOOD MORNING

and um, in the interests of being transparent in late game i would like to clear up that yes, i did shoot piplups last night

and yes, to answer the obvious question, i did use my ability to shoot kiyoko in d3 because i thought she'd flip mafia.

You tried to shoot

Our detective



You shot Kiyo, and then tried to shoot piplups. So basically anyone who was giving information that was found as correct in any way, you've tried to blow a hole in them. Am I reading this right

Are you going to shoot Gerry next

Piplups didn't live because she's bulletproof. Piplup lived because someone protected her.

What are you doing

You even shot at Piplups after she was giving information, in thread, that night, that was consistent with what we were finding out about high seraph on top of everything.

I just



WHY

C☆r3 wrote:I just



WHY

Well, at least someone is filling in my "WTF?" shoes while I'm bust being neutral.

LULU WHY WOULD YOU DO THAT WHEN PIPLUPS HAS BEEN SO USEFUL AND IS PROBABLY TOWN. AND KIYOKO WAS TOWN.

what the hell.

... jesus christ what has happened here.

Though, we seem to be in pretty good shape if a quick skim is any indication.

I'm going to unwind a bit before I comment. And there is so much to comment on.

Luxaria wrote:... jesus christ what has happened here.

Though, we seem to be in pretty good shape if a quick skim is any indication.

I'm going to unwind a bit before I comment. And there is so much to comment on.

Skim more.

oh wow, I woke up to 79 notifications, someone trying to detention-gun me, the twins having a marriage spat and our homeroom relocated to the next room over ok first of all--

Here comes… the Extoller of Justice: Tsunami Hand!!
aka my action went off without a hitch! thanks sammiya *v*

so here’s what this Real Ultimate Hero does - and to clarify the first thing, I didn’t live because I was protected, I in fact did live because I was bulletproof. or rather, because the role cop was bulletproof.

"Every night, you will be shown a different power (PM'd to you at the start of the night phase) randomly selected from the list of roles present in the game. You will not be told whom the power belongs to, and any identifying flavour will be stripped from the role. You will only see player’s role abilities, and not relationship abilities.

You will also be given a random word every night, which serves as your Ultimate Attack Phrase. If you use your attack phrase in at least one of your posts during the phase it is given to you, your attack gauge will fill by 1, for a max of 3. Once you fill in your attack gauge, you can choose to unleash your heroic powers once in the game, for any set of three abilities you have seen. You will gain those three abilities, in full, for one night/day cycle each, in the opposite order they were shown to you."

there’s a little more, regarding what investigative roles can/cannot do to me and how I respond to night visitors, but this is the only relevant portion for now. I was a bit disappointed when I got stunned out of activating my first three abilities because one of them was an alignment cop ability (rasei’s, probably), buuuut I totally take that back because these three are better for me right now. plus, I was gonna use the ali-cop shot on kiyoko anyway so hindsight tells me that was an unnecessary choice. the words were absolutely ridiculous too - among them the cholesterol thing like how exactly do you even casually drop off the systematic name for cholesterol in the middle of a mafia game.

anyway, bottom line is, I’ll be bulletproof this upcoming night too (and it’ll take a lot to kill me, if 'in full' means exactly as my Mystic Eye saw it), and then the next night I’ll be able to use sammiya’s ability. I honestly don’t expect to live past that night, with how much I’ve said and the fact that I'm a little doubtful whether we even have a straight doctor role anymore, but I’ll still get my Mystic Eye results, so that’s two more roles we’ll be able to see, if everything goes well.

ANYWAY ANYWAY, in addition to the bulletproofing that saved me from lulu’s gun (w…hich I’ll talk about later), I got to activate a role cop ability last night! and I picked Cure! and………

well ok, one thing was that I actually got the flavor for this, unlike my Mystic Eye. though the role itself, I am inclined to believe is either actually Cur3’s, or something else weird is going on re:role claims. he conveniently blotted out a word in his role PM reveal, so he can probably verify this for me:

"Every night, you can insult a player incessantly, demoralizing them so much that they will be stunned out of their night ability.”

the flavor contained more usage of the word ‘trash’ than in his revealed version though, so I’m not too sure whether that got copied over or if it was Cure’s to begin with. and everything else, from the flavor, seems to be the same as what Cur3 posted, except with the word ‘even’ in place of ‘odd’ and ‘Cur3’ in place of ‘Cure’.

t…houghts? because I’m just really confused by this.

ok, onto re:lulu, I'm not surprised by her suspicions because like I said, I totally tried to investigate kiyoko first chance I got too, though her methods are a bit more… permanent, so...... especially because, if she wanted to test the truthfulness of my claim via the potential sacrifice of a townie, the smartest target she could've gone for was angel, because if she dies we'll know I'm very likely either wrong or lying and if she doesn't then we'll have used up the very likely to be maf role cop's bulletproofing.

right now, my lists stand at:

likely mafia: alcasync, cure, angelstar, lulu
one out of these maybe??: ninfias, luxaria, ezzelin

out of the three on the bottom category, I'm least suspicious of luxaria, but both ninfias and ezz are about equally likely in my mind.

re:luxaria’s earlier question [x]: well, I think he would understand what I mean by benefit, but I think it doesn’t actually matter that much at this point, so don’t worry about it! unless he came across the role via the maf role cop or similar means, I trust him. by which I mean I’m not more suspicious of him for not talking about it, since I could verify his claims based on the details he’s mentioned already.

to sum up this ridiculously long post, I'm going to Vote: Alcasync based on my previous reasoning regarding her alignment (basically, that kiyoko would probably have chosen alternative wording for refusing to vote alca if she had a better reason to use).

No one can tell us apart. UvU

So you're telling me there's TWO town roles that can copy and use other people's abilities? You actually think this is likely? If Alca flips town I think Kiyo's alignment should be called into question.

Do you just copy the roles or do you actually absorb the usage of them from the original player? If it's the latter... that is not a very town-seeming role.

piplups wrote:

"Every night, you can insult a player incessantly, demoralizing them so much that they will be stunned out of their night ability.”

t…houghts? because I’m just really confused by this.

Nothing to be confused about. That's pretty much my role PM exactly.

Sexy Homeroom Teacher wrote:Every night, you can insult a player incessantly, demoralizing them so much that they will be stunned out of their night ability.

Unless you meant the results you got for my sister were specifically listed as my sister's results and it just so happened to be my role in reverse. In which event. WAT. Regardless of alignment, if my sister had an every night stun, she'd use an every night stun. So I can only assume you grabbed my role with the rolecop ability.

Piplups wrote:I AM A SUPERHERO

I GET ABILITIES FROM PHRASES AND HAVE A SUPER METER.

I TAKE ROLES

THAT MAKES TWO TOWN ROLE STEALING BULLETPROOF ROLES WITH A CHERRY ON TOP

I didn’t live because I was protected, I in fact did live because I was bulletproof. or rather, because the role cop was bulletproof.

re:two copiers, hey, I saw kiyoko's ability n0 and I was kind of surprised too. I think it's probably the fact that neither of us get to really choose our initial copying targets, but hmm.

and excuse you I am a real superhero

no one believes a chuu2

but it's true

also I'm pretty sure I only copy the power, not steal it. though if the mafia is willing to risk testing that out the upcoming night, well... it probably won't work, is what I'm saying. if I stole the power my role pm would probably not specify 'in full.' and would probably contain a stronger verb than 'gain.'

re:role copping, I specifically targeted Cure, and the result was implied to be hers (part of the flavor says "You are the attractively charming of the douchebag twins..." which I had to dig around a bit bc 4kids but is indeed Cure's thing right?) I don't doubt that's actually your ability, with the number of stuns in all the previous nights and the posts that happened in the previous few hours, but I did actually choose Cure as a target.

Wow, finally caught up, with a list of quotes I'll tackle shortly. But since I see the current discussion, throwing this out there before I bury myself in a post for the next few hours:

piplups wrote:well ok, one thing was that I actually got the flavor for this, unlike my Mystic Eye. though the role itself, I am inclined to believe is either actually Cur3’s, or something else weird is going on re:role claims. he conveniently blotted out a word in his role PM reveal, so he can probably verify this for me:

t…houghts? because I’m just really confused by this.

T3tsuya wrote:Regardless of alignment, if my sister had an every night stun, she'd use an every night stun. So I can only assume you grabbed my role with the rolecop ability.

I have one thought that jumped out at me. From what I've seen, there's a lot of symmetry in the roles of the twins (relationship ability, even/odd night redirects), so on and so forth. However, Cur3 also had a specific set of effects that were conditional upon Cure being alive.

T3tsuya wrote:If Cure is alive, you also have the following extra abilities, since no one can tell the two of you apart anyways and you might as well be the same person:


On odd numbered nights, any actions directed at you will passively redirect to Cure.

You can never target Cure with your ability, since your twin is the only person you can bear in this entire school. Any attempts to target Cure with your ability will fail. Should Cure perish before you do, you will be utterly devastated, and your stun's effectiveness will be reduced to 50% for the two nights after her ... sending to detention.

Cure has claimed having a symmetrical effect for the first item, but she has never revealed a second role ability. From how this phase has gone, if we take into consideration that Cure has a high chance of being mafia, she might have an effect that redirects investigations to her twin. Which would explain what happened to piplups.

Piplups was not mistaken in that she got my flavor with my brother's role. I do not redirect investigations to him, however. I think it's to balance out the fact that my brother's active ability is much stronger than mine, people often think I'm him. He leaves a much stronger impression on people, they kind of forget I exist and just jump to the conclusion that I'm him. I'm still not mafia, though, sorry. UvU

Anyway, there'll be time to talk about my role later. I think my brother and I have taken up enough of your attention this phase.

ugh okay i should've done vote: alcasync last day phase but i was way too scared to do it without having backread properly, but now that I have I'm pretty sure that it's the best course of action, also omg ascot-kun is literally the best bae ever js AND YES AHHH TYPING THIS NOW I SEE UR POST FMLLLLLLLL

i'm still trying to make sense of the cur3^2 thing jfc

trying to read through posts while grandmother keeps on trying to talk to you about the things she tells you at least seven times every day is mission impossible

ok, so here are some thoughts.

Cure wrote:I didn't send in the NK I'm not STUPID. if I have to repeat this one more time I do not want to repeat this one more time because I didn't DO IT.

Mr. Gerbear wrote:Also... like... what if the mafia just didn't send a NK, knowing that there's a Town stunner out there

I don't think Cure would have to be "stupid" to be the one sending in the nk. They knew who the town stunner was, and because the twins have identical conditions, they could've very well known that Cur3 cannot target them directly. If Cure is maf, and if we're on spot with the rest of the people we've been suspecting as maf, they would actually be in the best position to send in a NK.

Mafia just not sending in a nk intentionally is not a valid possibility at this point, imho. They'd have no way of knowing who the town stunner would hit, and with the current ratio, they'd have a 38.5% chance of incriminating one of their own instead. If it were me, that's definitely not the risk I'd be willing to take.
There is a possibility that the maf simply failed to send in the nk for some reason, accidentally. Perhaps the person supposed to send in the nk didn't manage to get online in time to do it. I am ready to give Cure the benefit of doubt on this possibility, but that doesn't mean I believe they're not maf, merely that there is a possibility, even if small, that they did not send in the nk.

I'm really uncomfortable by lulu attempting to shoot piplups when they actually gave information that was correct, and some of it beneficial. Knowing they shot kiyo as well... both of which aren't very town things to do. The whole "people visiting me die" doesn't sound like a town ability in the slightest, either - not to mention, lulu claimed to have been in a relationship with chi at the time - or would've been in the next phase after confirmation, in which case I'd think they'd have warned chi to not visit them.

I didn't know tet couldn't target me until he told me in thread today~~~~~~~~~~~~ Also with my ability to be invulnerable half the time, you can bet I wouldn't compromise myself during the other half by sending the nk. that's just sloppy. I am not a sloppy mafia player. scowlscowlscowl

I'll try to keep this organized, but I already know it's going to be long and so I may just end up going down the list of the quotes I've pulled that I want to comment on and assess. So if it's all over the place, I APOLOGIZE.

high seraph wrote:Determining which side Sammie is on should be a priority, but Kiyo already did that when she stole Sammie's lollipop powers and confirmed that they work in the most pro-town way possible.

I can't speak for others, but earlier on I found some of Sammiya's claims suspect since this boon of hers kept vanishing, which felt awfully convenient, and we had no way of backing her claim since Kiyo was dead when Sammiya revealed her role properties. However, given that piplups has backed her, too, in addition to some re-clarifications from Sammiya after she checked her role, I see no reason to doubt Sammiya right now. Maybe if it comes down to the final few and all the obvious targets have been lynched (of which I consider a few people to be in that "final few" tier), but otherwise, she seems pro-town.

high seraph wrote:But the fact that Minji acted the same night Ninfia fired her last arrow does not, in any way, clear Ninfia from suspicion. She has acted very pro-town all game, contributed a lot to speculation, and I admit I need to look over her posts once more in order to make up my mind about her. But she could still be mafia. In fact, I'm very close to believing that she is mafia, and the reason is exactly what T3t pointed out -- we don't know a whole lot about Ninfia, do we?

That seems like a very awkward reason to say "I'm very close to believing that she is mafia" when you, yourself, haven't revealed the other half of your role that you adamantly are insisting be kept hush-hush, whereas Ninfia has at least communicated her intentions/actions. Note: I am not going to say claim it if you truly think it better to keep it quiet (which, you may have noticed, I have hinted being the case for my role as well--though Ninfia has been told part of it, so make of that what you will). What I am saying is that I found the almost frantic request to keep it quiet a bit concerning. So to that end:

high seraph wrote:How beneficial each player thinks an information is, or where they stand in regards to claiming/outing is subjective, obviously. I think what Pocha meant is that the "bulletproof" (by which she meant killproof) should have claimed and provided details about their role so that we could have 1 less person to suspect in our lists. However, thinking only of her ultimate goal, I think she may have overlooked the consequences that making this information public would cause. Yes, the town would know my full role and I would probably be off the hook. But the mafia would get their hands on information that would highly priviledge them in exchange. And I don't think that's the smartest way to go about it.

That's a fair point. And I suppose if piplups saw anything truly damning, she would have mentioned it outright. I merely brought up concerns given how you went about addressing it in thread.

ezzelin wrote:Kiyo explicitly said to me that if she gets sent to detention before alca-chan, that means alca is maf.

I think someone else asked this, but to re-iterate, was there any particular reason that she gave? Or was it intuition? Or unspecified? That said, given the votes in thread, we'll find out anyway.

Re: Cure, Framing, and Night Kills

I'm just going to tackle this all at once so it'll be easier. The relevant quotes:

Et tu, brother?:

Okay, I'll start with devil's advocate. Several things could have happened last night phase:

1. Mafia had and used both the secondary kill and the NK to blitz the ratio down to 5:7, try for a mislynch, and then try to win through another night kill.

2. Mafia had and used the secondary kill, but set up a frame by withholding the NK.

3. Mafia withheld the night kill, and the secondary kill was coincidental.

In the case of the second option, this might actually amplify the frame because it would show mafia intended to send in a NK to accomplish just that: bring the ratio down hard around town's feet. They could then frame someone. Why do this? If they feared they would not stand a chance through conventional methods, as in they had a lot of them under high suspicion.

True, they might not know about which player might get stunned. But, honestly, town's only disruptive ability would probably be used on suspicious targets--not someone like deo, as was suggested. This might make it easier to pile a lynch onto the unfortunate victim of framing. However...

This is a major reason why I don't buy the idea of a framing attempt. If mafia can theoretically enter this day phase at 5:7 (assuming the gun is maf, 5:8 otherwise), that puts them in a great position if they're under the radar, especially with half of town either not voting or not posting. And being under the radar is the only way the framing attempt would actually work, since you'd be hedging your bets against a suspected mafia being stunned. Maybe a cautious mafia that no one suspects might pull it off as an insurance policy, but, again, at this point they could just win the game if they had two kills.

I'm just really struggling to see a reasonable scenario in which mafia might try to frame someone. And not to mention that for this to even be the case, it'd involve several alignment flips (drandahl, Aeiou) being inaccurate, on top of several sources (Gerry and a few others I think, technically even piplups) all either being mafia or unreliable or whatever.

So with regards to sending in the NK on a vulnerable night, I do believe you are a smart player, Cure, but I also respect you and believe you're exceptionally clever and crafty (I just hosted a game that you basically ran by yourself, tbh). And I could see a situation in which you'd anticipate T3t either not wanting to or not being able to stun you. This is also not factoring in the state of your team. What if none of them are in good situations to send in the NK, and so you are the best option even on a bad night for you?

Regardless, unless you can draft up a team of mafia that would make such a play and explain away all the various role claims and information offered by numerous sources, I don't see a framing as being plausible. Even in the proposal of T3t and Gerry being mafia, then it's pretty much suicide for them to pursue this since you'd just flip town, and then they're more than mildly screwed by their own statements/claims when they could've just killed another town.

And on the topic of the now claimed gun...

lulu wrote:i don't know why the intermissions & rollover disappeared, don't ask me about that. at the time i thought it was related to kiyoko's role and that she obscures rollover upon death or something

This makes no sense. The first intermission was obscured/deleted even before she was shot. How would she interact on the intermissions before she even was targeted?

lulu wrote:i was kinda leery of piplups prodding me about my role, because a passive maf rolecop who pulls my ability is very likely to want to figure out who to avoid

To be fair, anyone of either alignment would want to avoid you.

lulu wrote:given the direction the thread was going, piplups was in a position similar to kiyoko where i thought she was maf but i didn't think i'd be able to push for a lynch on her

I can understand the Kiyoko shot to an extent, but the piplups one just feels off to me. I pointed it out in my last post how you keep throwing suspicions on players that come forward with investigations or information, and now you quite literally attempted to shoot one in the face.

I'll concede that you are claiming and attempting to explain your perspective, which I guess gives you a better chance than people being suspicious of your role and claim. But... I just am having a lot of trouble seeing you in a favorable light.



At this point it's close to 5:00 AM and I am exhausted, so I am just going to Vote: alcasync as well. I have a handful of other thoughts, but these are the most relevant and condensed ones for right now.

tl;dr: I do not see mafia attempting to frame as a viable scenario. There's other stuff in there, but I guess that's the big point. I already brought up my thoughts re: piplup's investigative redirection on Cure in the previous post.