Gakuen Mafia EP04-EP08 [ENG SUB]

I think it's likely that it'd be left for rng to decide between the two. Lux/the intermission seems to imply that SOMEONE is getting lynched.

*pouts* Okay.

ok hmmm i quickly reread the thread and now i'm confused as to what eleni and kiyoko are talking about, because i completely misunderstood ezreal's role, apparently, but if ezreal can prove it then ???

nautilus VIII
ezreal III

Kiyoko vs no vote
Mr. Alice vs ezreal
Luxaria vs ezreal
nautilus vs nautilus nautilus
Kotakia vs nautilus
Tiki The Troll vs nautilus no vote
Cure vs nautilus
Rasei vs nautilus no vote
chinomi vs nautilus
eleni vs nautilus
Ninfia vs nautilus
T3tsuya vs ezreal
Sammiya vs nautilus no vote
kiku vs nautilus
drandahl vs nautilus

I can't confirm anything about roles/mechanics involved in roles except to the player themselves with that role.

I don't think people should no vote. I don't think there's any way to save either of them, and withdrawing out of voting when you had a vote for most of the phase is scummy tbh.

I'm not sure if I'm going to have time to reply to all this before rollover because I'm notoriously slow at reading & writing posts but um here's a response to Lux's post and some notes on what I've skimmed.

@Luxaria
For the record though it's not really relevant at this point, I also agree that a framer/tailor/miller role is likely to exist.

Luxaria wrote:The entire argument on AliceofOz was flimsy from the start. The very points raised against her could have been raised against other players (by the way, eleni happened to make virtually the same comments at the same time as Alice and they never batted an eye at her).

I'm not sure why you think I've been tunnel visioning on Alice? My approach to the Alice vote on d2 was literally: I don't have any strong suspicions on anyone right now -> let's pick from the list of players and read through their post histories until I find someone I can pressure -> ok Alice works, and I'm going to stop here because I don't have the time to go through the post histories of 24 players. With a lack of role information to work from, it was an early game vote intended to generate discussion, which - for the record - I think it did a good job of?

(TBH I did actually find nautilus's extremely strong follow up on my vote odd, but I went with it because 1. I like seeing discussion and I think pressuring other people is the correct way to do get the thread talking and 2. I had no way of knowing at the time if she had information that I didn't have)

The arguments you've made against my suspicion of Alice are all very good and a pleasure to read, I acknowledge that my argument was weak.

I've literally only made like one and a half posts targeting Alice, though. In my first spec post, I specifically made a point of not stating that I wanted a defence or explanation for her behaviour, I stated that I would be willing to take my vote off Alice if I was presented with a better lynch candidate, because I recognised it was targeting someone for what could just be mistakes and weak reasoning.

I never moved my vote off Alice because I didn't see a better lynch. The alternatives were to vote Tiki, who I didn't think was suspicious, to NL, or to dig through more post histories (which 1. I didn't have time for, 2. imo should be the burden of the person who is currently under suspicion, and 3. would scatter the vote). Come d3, Tiki had acted scummy enough to incriminate both of them and Alice didn't seem to have any thoughts or objections to it, I put my vote on her again because I wanted her to answer my questions about what her thoughts on Tiki might be.

I am sorry that I didn't catch eleni's scumminess and it wasn't brought up until T3t's post n2. If you brought up eleni in your defence of AliceofOz I would've considered voting for her (or... I don't know if you did bring it up and I missed it? Sorry asdfhsd I'll go back and reread your posts soon I'm just working off the top of my head rn). When hearing defences from people I'm less interested in role claims (because mafia has too much space to fakeclaim) or explanations (because anything can be rationalised with more talking) and more interested in hearing who else they think is suspicious, because town's job isn't to defend themselves, town's job is to catch scum.

Luxaria wrote:Well, they also happened to mention a few times that they believe a strong voice or speculator to be one of the mafia players. This makes sense. Others have backed it.

Luxaria wrote:But, more to the point, the key thing this says to me is that ezreal and nautilus have buddied and trusted each other for literally no reason--which I'll get into--while still saying they think a strong player is mafia.

I don't... Think I've ever said this? It's kind of moot because I do believe it, but I don't think I've ever actually stated it. I tend to feel statements like this are fluffy scumtells because it casts general suspicion on active thread-goers for no particular reason. If I said it I sincerely apologise on a meta level, imo it's poor play whether you're maf or town - FOSing people purely for being active discourages people from participating in thread. But I'm pretty sure I have at least once specifically said "there's no reason to doubt strong speculators for the sake of it" and I'm also pretty sure I've stated before in game that I'm willing to policy lynch inactives because I hate playing with them.

I also don't think I've buddied naut aside from voting on a player who she then tunnelvisioned on and agreeing with her a few times - I actually bring up the possibility of naut being maf at least once - but sure, YMMV.

Luxaria wrote:No one thinks ezreal legitimately believes this, and so the consensus is that she's town.

Luxaria wrote:Well, Kiyoko got targeted for a NK N0. Coincidentally, the first person to place suspicions on her was ezreal, but we'll get to that later.

Luxaria wrote: By the way, ezreal has twice now suggested that mafia would try to set up kills on themselves to clear their name. I guess when it doesn't work the first time, try again?

OH MY GOD I DID SERIOUSLY BELIEVE IT?? OMG am i that weird I PERSONALLY REALLY LIKE MAF GAMBITS LIKE THAT? I've played a game of maf as maf before where I asked my team to not send in a single NK and town lynched itself to death, like those are the kinds of games that I play ofc I'm going to be suspicious of maf gambits I'M SORRY I'VE JUST BEEN FEELING REALLY DUMB & SELF-CONSCIOUS BECAUSE EVERYONE'S BEEN DISMISSIVE OF IT SINCE D1 IT FEELS LIKE IT WAS A REALLY STUPID IDEA TO BRING UP...

Luxaria wrote:And you think Alice is backpedaling? In the space of 2-3 paragraphs, you literally change your mind several times, but keep suggesting the Kiyoko theory isn't implausible, but that it's bad, but why would Alice veer away from it (seed of doubt), and "but I don't know."

True, I bring up things in thread to generate discussion, and I acknowledge when my arguments are weak and point out why reasons why it's weak, explain town-beneficial reasons for my behaviour and draw conclusions. In the same post that you're quoting, I explain that part of the reason I voted for Kiyoko because I wanted to see if anyone would bandwagon on my vote. Since I'm also somewhat unfamiliar with the meta in this community I had no way of knowing whether or not a maf gambit like that would be likely or not, which is also part of the reason why I folded quite easily on the issue (as I mentioned above I was feeling kind of dumb for suggesting it too, because like... no one took it seriously sobs...). Also, for d1 the alternative to a Kiyoko vote would be to NL and to have no discussion at all.

IMO this is different from Alice's behaviour where she points out suspicious people whilst being hesitant to place votes, and explains that she just made a mistake when inconsistencies are pointed out.

Luxaria wrote:I don't buy for a moment that mafia would waste a phase end, stun, and kill all on Kotakia if they were trying to clear her name, not from the words of the same person that suggested Kiyoko took the N0 NK because "people are having fun and hyping this up, so they didn't want to kill anyone, and Kiyoko could use it to dodge suspicion."

The main reason I was thinking this is because at the time I thought both Tiki and Alice were maf. If Kotakia was able to be cleared as a town cop, and then investigated Tiki and Alice and said they're both town (with her every-phase ability she's even able to do this before the next day vote), it takes them both off the lynching block - this clears three mafs.

FTR I don't think this is likely anymore because Tiki and Rasei got into a relationship on the same phase which I realise would be really dumb if Tiki intended to be cleared by Kotakia.

There are role related reasons for the times I get stressed out in thread and I'll be posting about them next day phase.

Kiyoko wrote:Both Tiki and Luxaria have separately stalled the game to keep Alice alive. Whoever is mysterious bus driver also acted to keep Alice alive.

True.

@Luxaria
You've questioned my suspicion of Kiyoko and Kotakia so I'd like to know:
Do you not think Kiyoko and Kotakia are suspicious? Like from 0-100% how sure are you that they're town?

Yes I can still prove my role if nautilus flips maf.

General thank you to thread for not making me hardclaim (but was I really that obvious about softclaiming I thought I was being pretty discreet..............).

Unless I'm dead at the end of this phase by the way of some weird lynch/vote altering ability I'll also post a list of reads next phase - sorry, I'd ideally like to be able to post it this phase but I don't think I'll be able to finish it before the spec cut off.

Oh my god I was about to place a naut vote but I see she's doing the hammer herself ok I WON'T RUIN YOUR MOMENT I'M SORRY I'M GONNA GO BACK AND BACKREAD YOUR BIG POST NOW

n★util★s wrote:ok hmmm i quickly reread the thread and now i'm confused as to what eleni and kiyoko are talking about, because i completely misunderstood ezreal's role, apparently, but if ezreal can prove it then ???

I... uh, hm. Well, I don't know what you thought ez's role was and I'm not going to give away what I think ez's role is but I was thinking of something that would show up rather blatantly in rollover and would be blatantly pro-town if it did show up so--

ninja'd dammit let me post and then I'll read those

Cure wrote:I don't think people should no vote. I don't think there's any way to save either of them, and withdrawing out of voting when you had a vote for most of the phase is scummy tbh.

I disagreed. I don't think it's scummy to not vote when you don't think either of the two choice are town. Yes, I voted the way I asked, but it feels wrong. Either way, my vote doesn't change the majority at all.

Rasei wrote:

Cure wrote:I don't think people should no vote. I don't think there's any way to save either of them, and withdrawing out of voting when you had a vote for most of the phase is scummy tbh.

I disagreed. I don't think it's scummy to not vote when you don't think either of the two choice are town. Yes, I voted the way I asked, but it feels wrong. Either way, my vote doesn't change the majority at all.

?________?

I mean mafia... god dammit. I'm tired and got back to work, and my cat isn't eating the damn mice that live in the wall next to my bed

Man now that I know that naut and I interpreted the hint differently I'm kind of wondering if I'm wrong but since ezreal said that they can prove their ability and I actually still don't have a lot of reason to believe ezreal is mafia at the current moment I'm willing to give ezreal the benefit of the doubt and let them use their ability to prove their towniness tonight or whatever.

Phase end.

No more spec posts.

NO SPEC POSTS ONLY CAT POSTS

Poor n★-chan.

These last couple of phases... mafia's like



Haven't been in a good position to post, sorry guys. Got home 2AM last night and had to rush into work this morning.