Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia thread 2 [Day six]

Oh! That... changed...

Anyway, Aeiou's obscured action is still probably Gerry??? It just makes PERFECT sense like too much sense, almost nothing in this game has made that much sense...

re: angel's result

I have two theories.

1. Gerry's role is in fact some type of obscuring role that even prevents him from being questioned by angel.

2. Looking at the question, it's possible including a qualifier like "including the NK" might be too close to asking about alignment since only mafia can send the NK.
(Edit: jk he clarifies this after a few posts)

That said, re: second option, she's said her result should read differently if the question was not valid, so...

???

@ drandahl

When you say the individual can't act, how do you mean? Is it just role abilities? Or can they not perform any action at all? How exactly does it work differently from a stun? Is it x-shot, or can you use it again? What's the flavor behind the person being unable to act after being shrunk? Too tiny to perform their actions, I guess?

You said you don't want to clarify, but I am a bit cautious about this claim because it gives town another controlling effect and it sounds mechanically like a stun atm.

@ Katagi
Can you comment on how you were affected by this ability?

@ Gerry
Is there a reason you're voting vowels over Katagi, given that they were both impeded? Or do you just view Katagi's claim as more solid considering she gave an item to Mitsu during the game?

Why wouldn't you have confessed your role sooner if you thought all investigation was gone? Like if you're actually vanilla in your eyes, and you know town lost two investigative roles plus mafia losing their detection role, did you still have reason to believe mafia had an investigative role? But why would you be completely obscured by investigation if that's... all your role does.

According to this claim, were you the one Vowels saw the other night?

Did you act and lie about it, Gerry? Because there's no one else that's claimed something similar to information obfuscation, and it makes no sense to have the entirety of your role be "investigations do not work on you" if you have nothing else, as you suggest by claiming you're probably vanilla. Lastly, if you are a town and town's using an information role on you, and you already saw a mafia investigative role die, why not alert town so A) They might not waste a role on you, and B) If they do use it, they can verify your statement later. It's the same deal as Tiki not claiming lynchproof. Even if we'd perform the action anyway, claiming it at least shows honesty.

@ Five
The host has said that after D1, if a NK is stunned or jailed or otherwise roleblocked, the failed kill will not show up in rollover, iirc.

edit: holy fuck there's been so many posts, let me catch up again

Luxaria wrote:@ drandahl

When you say the individual can't act, how do you mean? Is it just role abilities? Or can they not perform any action at all? How exactly does it work differently from a stun? Is it x-shot, or can you use it again? What's the flavor behind the person being unable to act after being shrunk? Too tiny to perform their actions, I guess?

You said you don't want to clarify, but I am a bit cautious about this claim because it gives town another controlling effect and it sounds mechanically like a stun atm.

Yes, too little to act. It's effectively a stun*, so I can totally understand your concern given other roles this game. I can use it every night phase.

*There's a very specific condition in where the little player can still act, and I don't want to give that away.

This is all I'll say around mechanics, unless I feel it's in town benefit to do otherwise.

Okay, let me point-form quote everything important that has happened in this phase so far. I know the whole weird result thing is giving everyone flashbacks, but Lucas isn't here to criminally misinterpret my role PM and I'm still alive so it's okay.

Cardcaptor Ninfia*:･ﾟ✧★ wrote:

"Mr. Gerbear has not submitted any actions so far in this game, including the NK."

You say to the Libra, asking if these words are true.

The Libra trembles, considering the words offered.

I̶̴̸̻̹̖̩̗̮͓̠̰͉̮͉͔̟̲̳̔ͯͨͯ̉ͅ ͦ̍͐ͥͭͭͥͯ̐҉̷̷̨̳͔̠̥̹͉̦͖́c̴̢̎̒̊͊ͭ͜͠҉̳̣̗͍̱͖̤ͅͅa̷̢̘̻͎̹̳͚͇̞̠̺͉̗̗̬͚̥̬̖ͦ̀̃͌͊͋͂̆̅͞ͅn̸̡̢͇̤͍̜̦̩̙̱̩̮͇̥̠̆̃̍̐͑̈̄̂̓͆͂͋̓̈̓͛ͭ̐ͦ͟n̸̓́͋̿ͣ͌̌͘҉̮̻͓͙̻̖̟̮̭̙̩̠͜ͅȯ̶ͨ̅ͯ̈́ͣ͒̎̽̍̇̉ͩ͏̡̫͙̱̻͍̫͈̯̻̙͈͇̜͚t̸̅̄͛͑͋ͥ̆̊ͮ͒͊̚̚҉̷̼̖̝̟̤̣̤̙͟ ̶̢̢̛̤͍͎͎̊͌͐̉̓̾͊ͫ͟t̸̨̛̛̝̘̳̦̲̳͕͚̗͈͓̰̩̫̝̯̳̮̞ͯ̍̓ͦ͛̍͘e̵̴̖͔̜̦̭̦̱̹̓̊ͣ̈́ͬͫ͂̒͐̅̇ͧ͆ͅl̶̮̼̬̳͂̓͑ͣͫ͂̊̓ͨ͆̒̾̈́ͭͧͯͤ̓̆̀ͅl͑͑̏͗͊̒͑̄ͤ̾̑͏̴̤̖̺̩̙́͘

The Libra replies.

Angelstar gets a result which is possessed by the devil on Gerry.

drandahl wrote:I'll go ahead and do this now: That shrunk was me. I am the little. The shrunk individual is made little, and can't act. It works *slightly* different from a normal stun, but shows up in rollover regardless. I'm keeping the details to myself for town advantage.

drandahl claims

Mr. Gerbear wrote:ETA: WAHT THE FUCK WHY IS THER E SCARY TEXT i honestly don't know if that's like. a consequence of my role or.... someone else's but tbqh idk if anyone else could really have done that????

Mr. Gerbear wrote:i'll just

confess now because like.... my role literally says any investigation won't work on me. I pretty much said I was vanilla because I thought all the actual investigative roles were dead, but I didn't realize the Libra question counted???

nautilus wrote:

Gerry wrote:confess now because like.... my role literally says any investigation won't work on me. I pretty much said I was vanilla because I thought all the actual investigative roles were dead, but I didn't realize the Libra question counted???

Cardcaptor Ninfia*:･ﾟ✧★ wrote:

"Mr. Gerbear has not submitted any actions so far in this game, including the NK."

You say to the Libra, asking if these words are true.

The Libra trembles, considering the words offered.

I̶̴̸̻̹̖̩̗̮͓̠̰͉̮͉͔̟̲̳̔ͯͨͯ̉ͅ ͦ̍͐ͥͭͭͥͯ̐҉̷̷̨̳͔̠̥̹͉̦͖́c̴̢̎̒̊͊ͭ͜͠҉̳̣̗͍̱͖̤ͅͅa̷̢̘̻͎̹̳͚͇̞̠̺͉̗̗̬͚̥̬̖ͦ̀̃͌͊͋͂̆̅͞ͅn̸̡̢͇̤͍̜̦̩̙̱̩̮͇̥̠̆̃̍̐͑̈̄̂̓͆͂͋̓̈̓͛ͭ̐ͦ͟n̸̓́͋̿ͣ͌̌͘҉̮̻͓͙̻̖̟̮̭̙̩̠͜ͅȯ̶ͨ̅ͯ̈́ͣ͒̎̽̍̇̉ͩ͏̡̫͙̱̻͍̫͈̯̻̙͈͇̜͚t̸̅̄͛͑͋ͥ̆̊ͮ͒͊̚̚҉̷̼̖̝̟̤̣̤̙͟ ̶̢̢̛̤͍͎͎̊͌͐̉̓̾͊ͫ͟t̸̨̛̛̝̘̳̦̲̳͕͚̗͈͓̰̩̫̝̯̳̮̞ͯ̍̓ͦ͛̍͘e̵̴̖͔̜̦̭̦̱̹̓̊ͣ̈́ͬͫ͂̒͐̅̇ͧ͆ͅl̶̮̼̬̳͂̓͑ͣͫ͂̊̓ͨ͆̒̾̈́ͭͧͯͤ̓̆̀ͅl͑͑̏͗͊̒͑̄ͤ̾̑͏̴̤̖̺̩̙́͘

The Libra replies.

Aeiou last day phase wrote:THERE WAS ONLY ONE OTHER PERSON
AND
ITS FUCKING OBSCURED

HOLD YOUR HORSES

what the fuck does this mean

Luxaria wrote:1. Raie was going to disappear at the end of phase no matter what. It was a one phase "res" as I said previously. Mafia could've tried to target her. The host has said if anyone attempted this, they would not be told she was invalid, but their action would be viewed as not occurring, and thus not being present in the rollover.

2. My second role ability is that I can hide a limited number of times during the course of the game.

I hid last night.

At first I thought it'd show up as a failed kill in rollover if I was targeted with a kill, thus the "we might see tomorrow" comment I made last phase since I wondered if I was at risk for bringing Cure back (and mafia had no way of knowing if I was telling the truth or had more up my sleeves, like more resses or something).

That said, I just checked with the host and found out if I was targeted during the night while hiding, the actions wouldn't show up in rollover since I vanished into the mist and there was never a target.

So, in other words. Either the NK sender was made unable to act via stun or shrink (according to drandahl's claim, which I want to ask about in a moment), or myself or Cure were targeted and we were both not acceptable targets.

I'm... tbh I agree with Lux that I'm curious about drandahl's claim because it sounds like our fifth variant of an obstructive role, though.

... I was going to say that it was possible that mafia may have realized Gerry's role and framed him but like if he's claiming impossible to investigate 100%, would... a rolecop.......... even work on him if he were town

so it's literally either:
aeiou bullshit the existence of an obscured role action
gerry is mafia and is lying about not acting

ALTERNATIVELY, both are mafia but I feel like if there's at least one investigative role alive perhaps outing the existence of a role with obscured appearances in results is not the best thing to do

alternatively both are town but ???????

Mitsu wrote:@Gerry - Lux did mention the first half in her original post when I pointed out the weird strikethrough: regarding the second half, it's... really not advantageous to claim to be able to hide because mafia will never target you in that instance and just target someone else in the offchance that you do it.

+1

The only reason I'm claiming hide now is because if I was targeted last night and the NK disappeared, I don't want us to possibly lynch a town because of it. I haven't used my hides all game until now because A) No one targets me, ever, for some reason, B) I was mildly suspicious as Cure kept pointing out, which was intentional to avoid mafia attention, and C) I was waiting until after I revived someone to use it.

I left it ambiguous last phase as to whether I had more resses or some other power, and it may have paid off, who knows. It's still possible Vowels or Katagi (leaning town on Katagi, though, and Vowels if Gerry is actually an obstruction role) might've sent in the NK. But full disclosure, I did hide, previously explained the nature of Cure's res, and I'm saying if myself or Cure were targeted last night, there'd be no hint of a NK in rollover, failed or otherwise. It's possible mafia didn't believe me and targeted Cure, so who knows.

aeiou bc angel straight up posted her investigation result could you post your investigation result from that phase?

I do want Gerry to answer Lux's questions, since... I feel like if your anti-town ability is obscuring investigations it's in the town's best interest for you to claim immediately: holding off the claim almost sounds like you're deliberately letting yourself interfere with any investigative roles alive (of which Angel's role would definitely count).

I am currently inclined to believe drandahl is town due to ~role distribution~. In the original draft, a shrink and a jail for town and a jail for mafia makes sense, I think?

this might kill two birds with one stone re: the obscure, and re:flavor for the jump being watcher

"You leap up into the air, and in the night you see that Cure, Rasei, Angelstar, Katagi, and a̢̛͔̘͇̪̟̠̬̬̞̎ͬ̅ͦ̇̃̉̚n̷̦͔̬̰͆o̧̡̱̙ͪͫͥ͆ť̵̼̣̣͓̹̹̱̰̜̈͠hͫ̓ͬ͏̟̲͇̼̫̯̯͎ē̴̩̗̳̤̽ͣ͑̍͋̍r͆͂ͭ̔͘҉̭ ̜̰̞͍̘̒ͬ͐̆̿̈́̊̉p̡̩̰̭̘̤̒̈́ḷ̮͕̹̤̙̋̅a̺͇̰̰ͪͪͫ̐̀͜y͉̬͗̿̓̓́̀e̋̑͞͝҉̫̪̰r̮̥̠̺ͥ̋ͫ͋ͧ͑̓̒̕̕ were active last night,"

There's still a problem with that investigation /watcher, though.

That was the night the Item was created, and I acted on it to borrow it - and I am not on that list.

ok barring the possibility that vowels just came up with an ~obstructed role~ randomly somehow and then based on my result created her own........ it definitely looks like gerry. so.

No that was the phase Tagi gave it back to Nauti
Also notice lulu wasnt there which is why I assumed lulu was the obscured

Like, what is the actual utility of a role on the town side that is essentially obscured by all investigation? Pocha had a similar ability in Gakuen S2, but her actual role abilities (psuedo-role cop and ability to literally have any other ability in the game) circumvented her issues with investigation. Would there really be so many anti-town abilities in a game where it has been questioned whether or not we began with a doctor, jfc

I am... suspicious

@ezz - It was the night after that night, though? The night that an attempt was made on Cure (N3); the item that katagi made appeared on N2.

Luxaria wrote:@ Gerry
Is there a reason you're voting vowels over Katagi, given that they were both impeded? Or do you just view Katagi's claim as more solid considering she gave an item to Mitsu during the game?

Why wouldn't you have confessed your role sooner if you thought all investigation was gone? Like if you're actually vanilla in your eyes, and you know town lost two investigative roles plus mafia losing their detection role, did you still have reason to believe mafia had an investigative role? But why would you be completely obscured by investigation if that's... all your role does.

According to this claim, were you the one Vowels saw the other night?

Did you act and lie about it, Gerry? Because there's no one else that's claimed something similar to information obfuscation, and it makes no sense to have the entirety of your role be "investigations do not work on you" if you have nothing else, as you suggest by claiming you're probably vanilla. Lastly, if you are a town and town's using an information role on you, and you already saw a mafia investigative role die, why not alert town so A) They might not waste a role on you, and B) If they do use it, they can verify your statement later. It's the same deal as Tiki not claiming lynchproof. Even if we'd perform the action anyway, claiming it at least shows honesty.

I could just as easily have voted for Katagi, really? I voted vowels because i got ninja'd by drandahl's explanation and that spur-of-the-moment made me think oh it's probably vowels. But I'm more inclined to think Katagi's town because of that whole giving the gun to nautilus thing. But well. That could have very well been A Ruse.

I have no idea if I was the one who Vowels saw that night because I literally did nothing that night BECAUSE I HAVE NO ACTIVE ACTION ò^ó My only theory is that if Aeiou was telling the truth (which i mean... if the obscured thing was the same as what Angel got, then I guess the vowels are truthful) Aeiou's action could have technically activated my passive investigation. Here's what I think:

1.) If I had not shown up on Aeiou's list, then it means I didn't do anything.
2.) If I did show up on Aeiou's list, then it means I did something

Either way would have determined something definitively about me, which, like... apparently counts as an investigation, and would probably have activated my power. I mean. I could... ask the hosr... but idk if that's somethign the hosr can even answer

I didn't confess my role sooner because 1) i had no idea the obscurity could have even been Aeiou. All this time i was thinking oh maybe its someone else, who knows. and 2) I DON'T LIKE CLAIMING :C

and also 3) You're right tho, my role ISN'T entirely being passively uninvestigable... my role also says that my card won't show up on rollover. this is why i didn't want to claim anything. i absolutely know that not flipping anything on death is SUCH a scummy role and i'm trying so hard not to incriminate myself

Now I know literally any definitive information about me will be obscured. I had no idea it would work this way. :V

i'm just upset i wanted Angel to clear me AND NOW I KNOW SHE CAN'T. EVERY WORD I SAY HERE IS 100 PERCENT TRUE. LIBRA PLS

ヾangel★★★★★彡◦°˚☆ wrote:vowels can you confirm/deny that the "obstruction" was similar to the mess that i got?

@gerry but if vowels isn't then how would they think of something being obstructed?? idk if that's something you would just add randomly??? unless you're maf with them and then they know???????????

but the possibility of vowels "looking into" everyone triggering gerry's passive is.... possible???

chokes gerry omg

pls don't choke me ;)

i don't think vowels is lying about the obfuscation, just that they're the jump...... i honestly forgot all about it until nautilus brought it up

@ Five

That is a good point, actually. Hmmm. I'm mainly curious why Jeanne wouldn't act N0 if she had an every night stun, but... who knows with Jeanne, I guess.

@ Aeiou

OwO interesting, though arguably easy to fake if you're being dishonest about it. Hmm.

@ ezz

Question. How exactly does your role act on items? You choose an item in an intermission and what exactly is the description of how you operate?

Oh wait, the timeline might be off as Mitsu points out.



I want to see Gerry reply to my post, because if he's claiming completely vanilla outside of that ability... I'm struggling to see the use of it as town unless he has something else he hasn't told us about. Why have a town role that makes it so you cannot be seen by theoretically 3-4 town roles, and 1 mafia role (that we know of) if you're town? Also, if Aeiou is telling the truth, then Gerry would have to have acted, which he's claimed he never did.

Edit: Oh he just replied. Reading it.