Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

... speaking... of inactives. I think we should probably start greylisting people who repeatedly join games and then are indefinitely afk in them (like don't let them sign up for games in the next round if they get ~soft modkilled~ or something). Because it's detrimental, but you also don't want to be like "hey no you can't sign up for my game" but if someone keeps signing up and then not actually playing it's really unfair to both the host and the other players. I don't... think we've reached this point at all yet and this is definitely a tangent, but it's crossed my mind a couple times in some recent games now that they're getting bigger on average and have more inactive players on average.

@Mitsu. I'm gonna go comb through GS2 maybe to check out her posts. In a minute. I'm waiting for her to respond to any of this. Where is she?? she just up and vanished. LUXIEPOP WHERE ARE YOu. STOMPS FEET.


i am at the top of half the pages in this game geez.

My main concern is because it's just really kind of ?? if an inactive has a town power role (like doctor) and doesn't access or use it for the entire game at all whatsoever, because it's almost as if town is playing without that role and it throws off balance in smaller games, but this is just a tangent, h-haha.

... My other concern, especially with all the claims flying out, is a repeat of that one incident where I got fucked over by Kiyoko softclaiming neutral when she wasn't neutral was a game where the actual neutral she was claiming was inactive enough that she got away with it for like, 5 days and 5 nights in that game until they came back. Well. I didn't get fucked over because I was neutral in that game, but you remember, it was the one where she was Not Switzerland

Of your bolded huge font list I feel like Aeiou is the least suspicious of the three of them, but I do agree that their spec feels different this game, just... not suspicious enough... for me to consider them suspicious???

i heard back from hosr, reception of item IS a rollover action

i'm a bit :( at being suspected so much in a game where i'm trying much more than usual, but i can understand it, so. i will just try my best at convincing you all otherwise??? i... don't think claiming at this point would be very beneficial, so i'll hold off on that until necessary. aside from that, i don't really know what i could do to convince you of my innocence at this point.

also not really in a state rn to be coming up with spec but i can answer questions if y'all wanted to grill me or w/e

nautilus wrote:btw @hosr - if players are repeatedly inactive for phases on end, will replacements be made as necessary? i'm just wary of the game entering an unwinnable position simply because of inactives.

also @hosr - if a player is killed in a phase, will their actions still go through

1 - I'm going to be discussing player replacement if players continue to be inactive. I want the game to continue without straight up removing players, so if anyone knows anyone who would be down to be an alternate, please let me know.

2 - depends on the action.

☆☆katagi wrote:i heard back from hosr, reception of item IS a rollover action

Thank you!
Mitsu, you're safe and you're getting your gun-item soon-ish.

go to bed, angel

Ummm the main reason why I'm side-eying you a little is because of your weirdly direct statements, h-haha. :( It was a few small things that made me go hm, like your immediate jump to assume Raie had information that made her think Kiyoko et al. were mafia, or just... idk, just the fact that you had things to say about Tiki that felt off to me, but at the same time I can't fault you for thinking that I guess

also backreading your posts and i found this kind of weird:

i also feel like if he were mafia and they were going to use a phase end, he would 1) not post (or have other team members tell him not to post) 2) not have time to post such a lengthy post, assuming that he would be talking with the rest of the mafia about what they were going to do

the phase end seemed like a very calculated action, and if mafia had a phase end at their disposal they probably would have discussed it beforehand. if tiki was mafia, he would be aware of the possibility of a phase end and likely be able to construct a super long post and post it, since he'd be able to coordinate with the mafia's timing? like, the way i'm reading your second point seems to me that you're suggesting that tiki just wouldn't have had time to write a long post, but usually mafia coordinates beforehand if they have snap phase ends in play and tiki would... be able to know about it and prepare for it? maf isn't going to be like "tiki we're phase ending we're not going to tell you about it"

@item - when will i receive this item, then... if i do receive it....................

@hosr - What is the action priority in this game?

nautilus wrote:@item - when will i receive this item, then... if i do receive it....................

I will return it to you as soon as possible.

CRISIS AVERTED, I'M GOING TO SLEEP NOW. Spec will be tomorrow---er I mean later today, whoops, hello 5 am-- when I get back from visiting family.

shrine guardian ezz wrote:

nautilus wrote:@item - when will i receive this item, then... if i do receive it....................

I will return it to you as soon as possible.

CRISIS AVERTED, I'M GOING TO SLEEP NOW. Spec will be tomorrow---er I mean later today, whoops, hello 5 am-- when I get back from visiting family.

O-OKAY. I assume this is going to be next rollover? So the end of this day phase?

if we're going to be lynching tiki i actually have no idea who the fuck i'll shoot with it so i guess i'll just sit on it indefinitely

i trust your judgment ; ~;

man though that second vig kill is going to get me bad this game, because... ? i don't understand why anyone would vig kill sammie. unless, of course, Redirection

even if i assume kiyoko was the vig kill, it makes no sense for sammie to be killed as the NK/by vigilantes from either side when there are better targets like me, the clear, and five, the claimed stunner, unless i guess you want to consider doctor wifom? but even with that, there are still viable targets (ezz, lux, etc.,)

literally the only reasoning with the current claims spread out like this that i can think of for the sammie kill is that someone was suspicious enough of sammie's claim to vig kill her to test that out, but that seems like an exceedingly poor use of vig kill...

if sammie was killed earlier in the game, i feel like it would show up, too? but she never was.

e: like, i can see reasoning for getting kiyoko out purely based on role claim alone: a town redirect role is damaging to the mafia because it runs the risk of subtly fucking up your actions, which is why we took out blaire during the house phases. but who would take out sammie tho

Okay, if you really want to play this game.

From this game

Cure wrote:Also. This means absolutely nothing as it is entirely gut feelings, but the one post Lux made before vanishing kind of tickled my radar in the weirdest way for no real discernible reason.

edit: Lux showed up. her second post is giving me the same vibes.

Source

Cure wrote:idek why I'm suspicious of lux. it's not really because she's been quiet (because she's been playing video games with me all night so I know why she's been quiet) but there was just something that seemed different about her posts. I can't really place it and it is just #GutRead but. :V"

Source

Cure wrote:I also still have my weird suspicions re: lux.

Source

Cure wrote:The Suspicious

★ The Angelstar
★ The Katagi
★ The Sammiya
★ The AdiosBromigo
★ The She-Ra
★ The Luxaria
★ The Tiki the Troll

Source

(This phase)

Cure wrote:Lux you seem kind of off the mark insight wise this game compared to normal. It is making me very suspicious of you :T!!

Source

Cure wrote:Maf Jailer (possibly joat, stunner)

★ The Luxaria
★ The Tiki the Troll
★ The Five
★ The Katagi
★ The Aeiou
★ The Rasei
★ The Angelstar
★ The Ezzelin


Five is extremely likely town stunner. Tiki is the dash and that's NOT a stunner/jailer (he's claiming someone else's stun). Katagi has claimed twin that mirrors actions. ezzelin does things with items. Rasei is supposedly the neutral.


★ The Luxaria
★ The Aeiou
★ The Angelstar

Source

Cure wrote:REGARDLESS. I am 90% certain that there's at least one mafia among the trio of lux, angel, and vowels.

Source

Cure wrote:The Suspicious
★ The Luxaria
★ The She-Ra
★ The Aeiou
★ The AdiosBromigo
★ The Angelstar

Source

Cure wrote:I think Lux is the most suspicious to me. Followed by Angel.

Source

Cure wrote: little bit on Lux. The reason I'm really suspicious of Lux is because her behavior seems very off compared to previous games in which she was town, and much more in line with how she acted in Gakuen2 where she was mafia (somewhat less active, way less aggressive and confrontational). She might just be busy with her PEAS AND PARSNIPS but... there's a few things that have been bugging me.

Town Lux tends to get pretty defensive when people cast suspicion on her for no real reason--which I have been doing. Town Lux also tends to be more aggressive.

Lux has basically... not... addressed any of the suspicion I've been tossing her way for the ENTIRE GAME, which seems very uncharacteristic of her if she was town. If she's mafia, she wouldn't want to seem confrontational or reactionary or overly defensive, and she'd probably straight up ignore my finger pointing. Which she's been doing.

Town Lux also aggressively scumhunts, and this game it sort of feels like she's just hitching a ride on everyone else's suspicions and not really suggesting any new theories of her own when she's usually all about the 293753 theories.

All the posts this phase happened within less than an hour, where you just rapidly started to tunnel vision on your gut read of me being mafia, like some other reads earlier in the game. The other posts before this phase don't give me much of anything to address or go off of. What am I even going to say about them? You give me nothing to go on except, "Lux sure is scummy!" What do I say? "No! I'm not!" Is that really what you wanted?

Cure wrote:Town Lux tends to get pretty defensive when people cast suspicion on her for no real reason--which I have been doing. Town Lux also tends to be more aggressive.

Lux has basically... not... addressed any of the suspicion I've been tossing her way for the ENTIRE GAME, which seems very uncharacteristic of her if she was town.

And your reasoning for these statements would be?

Luxaria wrote:I don't really directly address votes on me because I find a better defense is to just try and speculate and offer information. Unless there's defined points, there's nothing for me to address in Five's vote.

Source: Literary Mafia, Town Lux

I've had this philosophy for a while. I'm 99% sure I also said this in a game over the course of December, in which, spoilers, I was town.

Not to bring other games into this, but you're probably exaggerating the end of LitMaf as "No reason", when I had every reason to be defensive given the stage of the game, the context of the thread, and the statements aimed my way. Here? You've literally just said, "Idk lux is suspicious." I am not going to validate you with a response unless you give me something to work with, as you should do in a team game. It's simply not worth the effort and distraction to dance to off-the-cuff comments without any reasoning, when instead I can think about the game. So to that end:

Cure wrote:Town Lux also aggressively scumhunts, and this game it sort of feels like she's just hitching a ride on everyone else's suspicions and not really suggesting any new theories of her own when she's usually all about the 293753 theories.

Luxaria wrote:@ Plotstickers votes:

I've been paying half-attention atm, but if I remember correctly it's due to the fact that we know the rollover will show a failed kill in the event that the mafia was stunned or jailed out of it (for now, at least), and by process of elimination plot was probably stunned by a town and may have been locked out of the NK?

Source

Not jumping on the plotstickers vote because I wanted to make sure I understood the reasoning behind it.

Luxaria wrote:I had some comments lined up regarding the distribution of stuns and jails, but apparently last night I completely missed Cure's points about her own role in relation to the jails and the alignments of the jailers, so it mostly invalidated what I was speculating. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if one jail was JOAT, because to me the presence of two jails but only one stun is unusual. Maybe I'm wrong, but I feel like stuns are easier to throw into a game, whereas jails are more complicated--especially when it seems a doctor may have acted on Mitsu last night (there are other possibilities to explain the failed NK, but I do think Mitsu is a logical target for protects), which would suggest up to three possible roles that have protective actions. That seems... unlikely to have on town's side? So then to me the logical answer is either mafia jail or one of the jails was a town JOAT. But Cure's posts makes a mafia jail on Mr. Alice sound very unusual, so I don't know how to parse it right now. There may also be stuns that cannot activate N0 (I've made these before), so I guess we'll see with future rollovers if we gain or lose rollover actions.

Source

Proposed the idea of a jailer JOAT, and speculated on the alignment and distribution of role effects. This is typically my default at the start of the game, especially when I have no information to provide (hint: this is a role hint), and other people have covered what I want to say in thread regarding other players. Btw Mitsu even discussed these ideas afterwards.

Luxaria wrote:Anyway, Lucas has flipped. His first post:

high seraph wrote:
- if NK sender is stunned, the NK will not show up in rollover;
- if NK sender is jailed, the NK will not show up in rollover;
- if NK target is protected, the NK will show up in rollover;
- if NK target is jailed, the NK will show up in rollover.

This interests me. In theory he could have asked it in private (idk if mafia would've asked during N0?). I guess asking in public means he can sound like he's contributing. What tickles me is if there was an ulterior motive, because getting the questions answered one way or the other either clears several people of the NK, or makes those same ones possible targets. I guess another factor is that Lucas then specifically highlighted plotstickers later on, and she was one of those players stunned and ended up briefly under focus. It may ultimately be nothing, but it just stood out while reading through.

Source

Brought up this point on Lucas' first post and mused over whether it had any implications. Bear in mind the entire plotstickers situation was still kind of up-in-the-air at the time, and so I was curious if his pointed questions about mechanics suggested the initial plan of attack from mafia. Again, Mitsu discussed this idea and found it of interest. In this post I also talked about the players I was looking at, and which players I wanted responses from.

There was the beans and parsnips post where I addressed the direction of the thread and offered quick thoughts on all relevant topics I could remember. No new theories, true.

This entire post is dedicated to explaining why I found the jail on Blaire interesting. No new theories, true.

Luxaria wrote:I haven't read the following posts, so keep that in mind, but while reading this my first thought was that it might've been done so late in the phase so that town had no time to react or think about it. It was a no lynch day, but if town saw an item go off they'd probably put more time into trying to figure out who did it, and also might have been more alert come rollover (I don't know if any town actually claimed posting rollovers and not having them go through, so we don't really know if it blocks everything but the NK, iirc?).

Source

Speculated with Mitsu as to the timing of the intermission / item. Offered my interpretation of why it was delayed, before ezz later said items only happen during rollover.

Here I addressed the nature of the claims and situation surrounding Tiki and Five. No new theories, true. I did, however, point out that lynching Tiki would at least give us an idea of what mafia was attempting to do by silencing him, since at the time it was just mostly "He's probably mafia", instead of the now, "He's mafia." And if we lynched him, we'd know if mafia silenced their own or a town, which gives us something to go on with regards to pinning the mafia.

Luxaria wrote:Also wtf @ item. I feel if it were town leaning something would've been said by now, unless the player in question is waiting until after next rollover so that way mafia can't... idk try to preempt it with actions of their own. But given the last item, naturally this one suggests mafia origin. I guess we need to wait and see, but I'm more than a little apprehensive because it... doesn't seem right that mafia can generate two killing effect items so soon into the game? *Edit: Presuming they're the same one, I guess.

By the way, if either Five or Tiki is actually a town stunner claiming the stun on plot (since apparently they both say that they did it--wouldn't it be hilarious if they actually both did do it? @ Host: If someone was stunned twice, would that be shown in rollover?), and Cure still says the jail on her has to be town originating, that says Mr. Alice has to have had a mafia jail. Because why would town have three disruption effects to mafia's none? Unless whichever player did stun plot is actually mafia, but I am inclined to agree that Five's actions and approach in thread makes a lot more sense from the perspective of a town Five stunning plotstickers N0. Not so much on Tiki's theoretical plot stun, but it's a mess at this point. Either way, I still just do not understand a maf!jail on Mr. Alice.

Source

Discussing the item showing up in intermission last phase, as well as more speculation on the role effects we knew of.

I then did some posts @ She-Ra trying to help her better understand the game and mechanics, and in the process discussed the possible nature of Tiki's lynchproof. I also addressed Kiyoko's mild FoS my way since she actually gave me something to work with: A quote of my own. For the record:

Luxaria wrote:I have no reason to think that Tiki is anything other than mafia, and I've pointed out with mild frustration how if Tiki were actually town and lynchproof that he should/would have said something sooner, because he's had that exact role several times before and knows by now the reaction he'd get if he did not. Thus, the lack of communication and everything surrounding the sequence of events between Five's claim and Tiki's response just... do not read favorably for Tiki. At all.

That said, there was mild discussion at the time as to whether Tiki should, if he can, stun a specific target (though off the top of my head, it might've just been Tiki proposing it and Cure largely "no"ing him about it, with a comment from Five). I just chipped in with the quoted selection and my other questions/musings not for the sake of trying to see if Tiki could "prove himself", but more to extend an olive branch. It was pretty clear on D2 that regardless of alignment, being silenced and unable to address people commenting on his playstyle/being silenced, on top of people saying they just want to lynch him all the time anyway, just led to Tiki having a really, really bad time. I'm still going to vote for him barring anything crazy coming up, but that doesn't mean I can't try and give him something to work with. Even if that something is more-or-less saying that I can't think of a good way to evaluate if he even has a stun, it's at least offering discussion with/for him rather than at him.

Source

Luxaria wrote:Technically, there is a chance of a lulu-esque "trust no one" in that the neutral seems to be  unable to claim in thread that they are neutral, in which case a mafia could theoretically hide under the guise of being neutral. I think this is unlikely since the neutral is going to (probably) get revealed one way or another (win condition or death, unless they are unlucky with the former), and, alternatively, the actual neutral would likely try to push lynches onto the psuedo-claim. Plus in the hypothetical where Rasei is actually Create as has been suggested, and it is actually a mafia role that makes items... everything that was suggested in thread just seems like a really poor way to conceal a mafia in plain-sight. So I'm just throwing this out for devil's advocate, but I sincerely doubt this would be the case.

Source

This is a theory. It's not a great one. It was something that popped into mind following your FoS on Kiyoko at the time, since it seemed at least semi-possible that Kiyoko and Rasei might attempt to create a situation in which one of them sounded neutral. Kiyoko has done this before. That said, I acknowledged the flaws with this, but I thought I'd post it anyway. I also agreed with, I believe, Mitsu's analysis of the situation. P.S. Now that I have been hit by Rasei's role, on top of Kiyoko flipping definitively town, it's very obvious Rasei is both neutral and The Create. It probably was already. I tend to be paranoid. You know this. Everyone knows this. It's why I do not fault players like lulu or Five for playing devil's advocate or speculating into space like I do sometimes.

Luxaria wrote:I'm... not about to dig through every card, but of the cards in the list of known cards, I feel like the Twin might fit the flavor of an item, if we're viewing the Create as more literary/neutral. The other powers don't... seem to fit the flavor of being able to give something to someone else, and even if they did... not really killing effects?

About the players on your list, I guess one way or another we'll learn more about whatever Katagi has up her sleeves by next rollover, given her comments. Possibly some others given what was said in thread.

As for the others? No real idea. ezz did comment on the nature of items and knowing that they'd only show up at rollover, which Mitsu found curious that she, personally, could not confirm through the host. From memory (and skimming recent posts by her), I don't think ezz ever clarified how she had that knowledge? The other players haven't... seemed to suggest one way or another anything regarding their roles, to the best of my knowledge. For myself, I'm keeping my card and role secret for now.

Source

Did some speculating on the nature of cards and players. Both the twin and Katagi statements proved accurate to some degree. Re-iterated, as I had suggested earlier in the thread, that I am keeping my card and role secret for now. I also will not be able to actually use it if requested since Rasei's action has stunned me for 48 hours. And, no, that is not a convenient excuse because Rasei specifically said she was acting on me and Kiyoko this game, and Kiyoko also said the same thing re: being delayed stunned. I'll dig that up if you absolutely want proof of it.

Luxaria wrote:Missing one jail, gained one stun. Sammiya was obviously stunned out of her bulletproof. Not sure if that's a maf or town jail on Mitsu since technically it's a protective effect, so it might've been a town action? Otherwise the town jail on Cure is either MIA or had some other thing happen to it.

Not really sure why Adibro was stunned when he couldn't use his role action tonight--well, I guess he could still send the NK, so that might have been the reason? Five?

Source

I fail to see what was so egregiously wrong about this that you immediately went after it. For the record, I am not you. I cannot see your exact role or what you know about things. I also have no information. I have not even acted once this game. At all. There's another hint for you, if you're keeping track.

In this comment I attempted to figure out how these actions lined up with N0's set of actions, suggesting/questioning the plausibility of Mitsu having been hit by a town jail as protection. This is something you even said in the same breath that you said my speculation is off.

Cure wrote:I am fairly certain the jail on mitsu is the town jailer and was used as a protect as Mitsu's actions are instant and she couldn't act last night.


Lux you seem kind of off the mark insight wise this game compared to normal. It is making me very suspicious of you :T!!

What is so wrong about my speculation, then? I had forgotten that Sammiya was a delayed bulletproof, and so when I saw her both stunned and dead, and having seen multiple games where stuns invalidate passive roles (Katabasis was still fresh in mind since knowledge of the stun negating my role-ability fucked up my plans), gut reaction was that mafia had probably stunned and killed Sammiya to dodge a bulletproof.

I've then spent the rest of my posts this phase trying to ask Katagi how her role works, because it just doesn't line up with how I'd expect a role to work. Something you, yourself, have been probing into.

So, what do you want me to address? You can't just keep vaguely throwing suspicions about and expect me to infer what you're getting at. I am not you. I do not know what you find suspicious, and so I keep trying to offer input when I can. I actually try to be a team player and take the back-seat when others are covering all points I'd like to make. I don't want to be a focus every game, but I do like to help and offer to discussion when I can. There's also another reason I've mostly accepted and been grateful for being relatively comfortable in that usual middle-ground I occupy every game, because between both the mafia role detection dying N0 and me not being an immediately logical kill target if town is going to waste time speculation on me (like right now), then it is advantageous for my role to lie low. This is another hint. I should not even be giving this many hints at this point.

If you still, for whatever reason, have it in your head that I must be mafia under any circumstance, then I will be forced to roleclaim at some point sooner than I would like, especially since I cannot use my role until Rasei's effect wears off on me.

Is this enough? Is this what you wanted to hear?

I haven't read any posts since I read this one, so I'll dig into it now.

oh my god what did i get ninja'd by. the longest post i have ever seen

i was going to post that if no one is lying in the thread with their claims:

★ The Luxaria
★ The Mr. Alice
★ The Aeiou
★ The Angelstar

two of these players are the vig kill on sammie/kiyoko and the second stunner, but i don't want to play the game of "folks who roleclaim last are definitely the only suspects" so imo my list would be expanded out to

★ The Luxaria
★ The Mr. Alice
★ The Tiki the Troll
★ The Katagi
★ The Aeiou
★ The Angelstar
★ The Ezzelin

for the second stunner, at least. jury is out on the vig kill for me because the weirdness of sammie as a potential target has me considering the unlikely possibility of five being a stunner with kill potential, but that also forces me to reconcile with the fact that tiki might not be mafia and i'd think that his behaviour during the last phase kind of, um, sealed the deal for everyone, if not everything that happened earlier... man, i just feel bad talking about him.

★ The Luxaria
★ The Aeiou
★ The Angelstar
★ She-Ra
★ Gerry
★ Adibros

any of these could be second jailer unless mafia stunner and second jailer are same person

I-I think I'll go and check back in later

e: i'm still here but imo i'd like to see angel spec when she's capable of speccing later, since i'm actually more <o><o> at her than lux imo

e2: edited out jeanne from quote 3 because kiyoko redirected jeanne to herself n0, and jail still went through on blaire. also added blaire to potential people who could be vig kill/stun on adios, since she's only really eliminated from the lists if 2nd jailer and maf stunner are the same person

i think it's ok if i reveal this much about my role, but fwiw i cannot act on people

Read all of it. Too mentally fatigued after that last post to offer more thoughts right now. Might post again before bed. Might not. Will try and address things whenever I do post, if they come up between now and then.