Cardcaptor Sakura Mafia [Day Four]

I have a question. Causing someone to be silence is a very mafia thing to me. Those whom have experience, is it mostly a mafia ability? Or have you seen town with it? Also how could Tiki hinted towards his ability if he couldn't post on Day 1?

Even if it turns out Tiki is mafia this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Because for day 1, he couldn't speak. Then the quick night. (Which I'm very unhappy about.) Then all the focusing on day 2 on him. It like he never gets a break. Even when he is town, people are like lets lynch him for being Tiki.

:(

I just want to reiterate that my changing vote to Tiki was purely based on whose claim made more sense with their previous posts/statements.

I'm sorry that we pushed you this far. It happens quickly when people get invested in a game, and it makes me sad when it takes away all the fun for some. If I sad anything that rubbed you the wrong way, I apologize, it was never my intention to attack you personally or anything.

Kiyoko wrote:So Lux's post here that's too long to quote in full so I'll just pull out the relevant part, is kind of interesting to me because while she does express concerns about Tiki's alignment, she also seems to be seriously entertaining the idea of letting Tiki "prove himself"

I think you're kind of misreading my intentions and tone with that post.

I have no reason to think that Tiki is anything other than mafia, and I've pointed out with mild frustration how if Tiki were actually town and lynchproof that he should/would have said something sooner, because he's had that exact role several times before and knows by now the reaction he'd get if he did not. Thus, the lack of communication and everything surrounding the sequence of events between Five's claim and Tiki's response just... do not read favorably for Tiki. At all.

That said, there was mild discussion at the time as to whether Tiki should, if he can, stun a specific target (though off the top of my head, it might've just been Tiki proposing it and Cure largely "no"ing him about it, with a comment from Five). I just chipped in with the quoted selection and my other questions/musings not for the sake of trying to see if Tiki could "prove himself", but more to extend an olive branch. It was pretty clear on D2 that regardless of alignment, being silenced and unable to address people commenting on his playstyle/being silenced, on top of people saying they just want to lynch him all the time anyway, just led to Tiki having a really, really bad time. I'm still going to vote for him barring anything crazy coming up, but that doesn't mean I can't try and give him something to work with. Even if that something is more-or-less saying that I can't think of a good way to evaluate if he even has a stun, it's at least offering discussion with/for him rather than at him.

nautilus wrote:Rollover flavour is usually pretty clear in this game - the flavour from when I shot Lucas into oblivion is obviously pointed towards my card (The Arrow). Given that rollover flavour said Tiki ran away, him being The Dash thematically makes sense with the card's power, so I'm willing to say that it's his own ability and not someone trying to save Tiki.

Oh, yeah, I'm not saying that first lynchproof wasn't his own. I was more answering She-ra by saying that, for example, we could go and lynch Tiki next phase and he might still not die if mafia had another means of preventing a lynch handy to use on him. Just trying to cover all bases for her since she was trying to ask if we had any idea how his lynchproof might work in future phases if at all.

Okay, I don't normally like doing this, but I'd like to request protection tonight and hope that the town doctor wasn't one of the people who had their abilities blocked.

Rasei wrote:I have a question. Causing someone to be silence is a very mafia thing to me. Those whom have experience, is it mostly a mafia ability? Or have you seen town with it? Also how could Tiki hinted towards his ability if he couldn't post on Day 1?

Even if it turns out Tiki is mafia this is leaving a bad taste in my mouth. Because for day 1, he couldn't speak. Then the quick night. (Which I'm very unhappy about.) Then all the focusing on day 2 on him. It like he never gets a break. Even when he is town, people are like lets lynch him for being Tiki.

We're not suspicious of Tiki because he was silenced. Also, it's a very common mafia silencer tactic to silence one of their own to prevent them from incriminating themselves.  Tiki discussed the stuns after he was unsilenced in a way that made it very clear he was not any of the disabling roles.

We're suspicious of Tiki because he counterclaimed Five who has had LOTS of evidence to back up that she's the town stunner, wasn't transparent about being lynchproof, and was overall acting out of character when he reacted to someone else supposedly claiming his exact role power and stun target. Not only that, his first response to "wow we stunned the same person apparently?!" was to be like WELL MAYBE WE JUST STUNNED THE SAME PERSON AND THERE'S TWO STUNNERS! Instead of accusing Five of lying. It's pretty cut and dry at this point.

Tiki is mafia based on his actions in thread. Not his personality or any biased feelings anyone might have towards Tiki. The fact that people keep seeming to think we're lynching him out of bias or just because "it's Tiki" is incredibly baffling to me. I don't think there's been more damning evidence against a single person (that wasn't an investigation result) in a very long time. In fact, if Tiki somehow ends up being town after all this I will actually be pretty upset because he would be like... borderline game throwing with how he's been acting if he is somehow town.

I understand that you and Tiki are very good friends and so you often want to defend him because of it, but it does not mean he is innocent. Especially not in this case.


ALSO THE DASH MAKES ZERO FLIPPING SENSE AS A STUNNER GUYS. THIS IS KIND OF THE BIGGEST THING HERE.

Luxaria wrote:
Short answer: We have no way of knowing, but he's probably one-off lynchproof judging by how Ninfia seems to have balanced the game.

Edit: *

If you have other questions I can try to help. I don't know if you've necessarily played mafia before, much less forum mafia, though word on the street is you're familiar with a variant of it?

Yeah I'm familiar with a couple different card game variants and the traditional sit-in-a-circle-close-your-eyes game you play in every youth group ever. Not with forum, but Hayley talks about it all the goddamn time (<3 ilu hayley)  

nautilus wrote:
Finally, town!Tiki would know to claim lynchproof if he actually was lynchproof since he has gotten flak for it before as town. If he's town... it's just really frustrating that he wouldn't out his role in its entirety, especially since he was around when I asked him to out his card name and all information about it. Like, if he somehow flips town after all of this I will be disappointed, man.

More question: What do you mean by this re: townie role claims? Like, Tiki should have said they were lynch proof if town when asked/when they came under suspicion as a way to prove townliness? Or they should have just put that information out there regardless to help their claim to town? I haven't used any of my abilities yet, and can't right now anyway, and if I did something I'd probs claim it, but would outing myself by telling y'all my card/making some vague hints mean anything or nah?

PS. I was busier today than I thought I'd be but I will be around :)

@ She-ra

So, some people handle claims and the timing of them differently. I tend to avoid claiming or hinting at my role for most of the thread until I feel it is advantageous. I do this because I feel like it provides more opportunities to possibly trip mafia up on lies, as well as keeps mafia in the dark as to what I may have in my possession (also limiting their ability to fabricate claims, which is a thing). In general, in my opinion, it is arguably pro-town to keep your role(s) quiet until you can do something with it (be it avert a looming lynch on yourself, or out a mafia, or corroborate the claims and information of someone else, etc.). If town just speaks candidly, mafia can develop better tactics as to who to take out in terms of power roles and in-thread speculation. Case in point, chinomi and plotstickers had their roles outed one way or another D1. They both died within 24 hours. Mafia wouldn't have been able to blitz both detectives without that information, but it did net us a mafia kill, revealed Mitsu as town (vig shot the mafia), and plot would've been lynched otherwise.

In the case of Tiki, I don't think anything would've necessarily caused the thread to stop trying to lynch him, short of the host saying he was town. But. Claiming lynchproof at least lets us know that he is trying to communicate his role, because he was in a situation where it'd come up. Voting and lynches are town's best tool to kill mafia, outside of the occasional vigilante shot, and so people get a little irked when a lynch vote is done and we don't actually get a result from it because it means another 24-48 hours of the thread being forced to wonder about the alignment of the would-be-lynchee.

For Tiki, he didn't seem surprised by being lynchproof, and the rollover flavor fit what he is claiming as his card, and so it's not like he wouldn't have known he was lynchproof, but he did not reveal this to the thread. On top of the set of circumstances in which he is particularly suspect, not claiming being lynchproof just furthers the case for him being mafia. In other words, if he were actually town it'd be better to just claim the role so that way town is A) less surprised when the lynchproof goes off, B) has time to evaluate if they should swap targets or not, and C) Tiki has established himself as communicating and being truthful. The last one is key because as town, it is your job to try and offer as much as you can that's relevant and useful to the collective discussion, and not doing so just hinders town a lot.

So, to answer your question, Tiki should've said something if he were town, regardless of the in-thread situation. As for your own claims, I have no idea what you have, but try and evaluate if it's something that hinders your usage and town if mafia were to know. Basically I'm saying claiming (be it role before or after the fact, or just your card) is up to you, as everyone approaches it differently.

Does... this help at all? ;w;

Okay yeah, that was basically how I was looking at it too, thanks. I can't do anything at all this phase anyway, so I don't think there's much point claiming what things I can do since I currently... can't.

I'm leaving work now you guys! I will be on tonight and NOT MISS THE GODDAMN VOTE.

(literally me last night when voting happened)

TO BE FAIR, SALAD IS AMAZING.

I HAD 7 SALADS THIS WEEKEND. AND ANOTHER TWO DAYS AGO. THE ONLY REASON I'M NOT HAVING MORE IS I'M OUT OF VEGETABLES. MAYBE JUST LETTUCE AND OLIVES WILL DO. I'M GOING TO DO IT.

I LOVE SALAD.

........ hi.

ahem I mean I'm glad I was of help feel free to ask more questions I'm not weird ok don't believe what they tell you

salads are disgusting. fight me.

How does it make you feel knowing I've had bowls of only lettuce and a little cheese before? No salad dressing.

Does it make you uncomfortable?

Delicious.

Fucking.

Salads.

☆☆katagi wrote:I'm on lunch and I have to go back right now BUT

I did the thing... "a little birdie" will know what to do now

I'll explain after work!!

I just got back from work, but... I have no idea what this means, if this is related to me! pls explain unless this is referring to someone else ;o;/

I'd like to reiterate though that my votes on Tiki... weren't personal at all, and I don't think anyone was saying let's lynch Tiki for being Tiki? If anything people were comparing his behaviour to previous games where he was mafia, it's not necessarily us digging at Tiki just for being Tiki (though I think my last post might have cut a bit close before his response to Lux) :(

I think we have a solid body of evidence and I hate to mention Tiki's post as being potentially incriminating but the fact that he said "my alignment" and not "town" is kind of... alarm bells ringing here... I'm fine with dropping Tiki until next day phase and focusing on other things though, because I think Tiki is really stressed about things going on in-thread and like, 90% of the thread that's posted has made up their mind about him at this point. Let's just... move on for now.

Ummm on more pressing topics, like THE IDENTITY OF THE ITEM GENERATOR. I am pretty sure this role is mafia, because if the item generator is town and gives items to folks and gave a gun to whoever shot Plot I'm pretty sure they would claim who shot Plot, unless the item is RNG'd to an individual. But the timing of that item generation makes it seem like it was a very clear, directed plan to remove Plot from the game that phase.

I laid out possible suspects for the item generator in the post on the previous page (based on claims and the fact four people couldn't act tonight) but any thoughts or ideas on it?

I feel for the case of the item generation the most likely card would be The Create, though! Since the role powers seem to follow the theme of the cards (like I fly away after being attacked), how Plot could find out if someone was salty, spicy, or sweet, and how Chi's works.

Idk... the fact that the Create is probably Rasei though and Kiyoko's said she's probably neutral:

a) The Create is literally a book, and Rasei likes writing
b) The Create ties along with what Kiyoko says Rasei's ability is very strongly, which is "create something ... creative and within 48 hours you get your ability back".
c) In Lit Maf Rasei drew attention to the intermissions without explicitly claiming them, and I wouldn't be surprised if she brought up The Create and it was actually her role

This is all conjecture though because Rasei hasn't claimed explicitly or confirmed anything Kiyoko's said in-thread, so.

I'd like to reiterate this though in bold text, even moreso:

If there is a revival role that can act and I die this phase, especially if this revival role ends up wiping the ability of the player targeted, I would strongly prefer to be revived.

I.. actually forgot about Rasei being the Create. Whoops.

In that case, then The Shot, The Shield, or The Sword feels likely. Maybe The Thunder or The Libra... (god it's been a long time since I've seen it... What does The Libra do again in the manga/anime?)

Sammiya(・ω・)b wrote:I.. actually forgot about Rasei being the Create. Whoops.

In that case, then The Shot, The Shield, or The Sword feels likely. Maybe The Thunder or The Libra... (god it's been a long time since I've seen it... What does The Libra do again in the manga/anime?)

Hmmm... I think the Libra was a lie detector? imo the item generator is either The Illusion or the Dream, though at the same time the Illusion sounds best for a framing role/alignment obscuring role and the Dream sounds appropriate for a dreamer... idek man.

nautilus wrote:Idk... the fact that the Create is probably Rasei though and Kiyoko's said she's probably neutral:

a) The Create is literally a book, and Rasei likes writing
b) The Create ties along with what Kiyoko says Rasei's ability is very strongly, which is "create something ... creative and within 48 hours you get your ability back".
c) In Lit Maf Rasei drew attention to the intermissions without explicitly claiming them, and I wouldn't be surprised if she brought up The Create and it was actually her role

This is all conjecture though because Rasei hasn't claimed explicitly or confirmed anything Kiyoko's said in-thread, so.

Technically, there is a chance of a lulu-esque "trust no one" in that the neutral seems to be  unable to claim in thread that they are neutral, in which case a mafia could theoretically hide under the guise of being neutral. I think this is unlikely since the neutral is going to (probably) get revealed one way or another (win condition or death, unless they are unlucky with the former), and, alternatively, the actual neutral would likely try to push lynches onto the psuedo-claim. Plus in the hypothetical where Rasei is actually Create as has been suggested, and it is actually a mafia role that makes items... everything that was suggested in thread just seems like a really poor way to conceal a mafia in plain-sight. So I'm just throwing this out for devil's advocate, but I sincerely doubt this would be the case.

I think without knowing the actual flavor of what these items are, it's hard to really guess at the card or cards in question. Tbh I don't know what any of these cards are in terms of the actual anime or their flavor, but hm... Brb, let me take a look at your lists and the known cards.