Ok. This is a mess. Lets try to make some sense of it. I have a few ideas and a few things to speculate on. If people agree or disagree with me, please say so and give reasons. I feel like we're at a (somewhat) good position in terms of intelligence despite losing who we lost.
On Kiyo alcasync wrote:In case nobody else caught this. Kiyoko was the student. She said her role was on the list, and that she could only use it on people she shared a room with.
So I have reason to believe that Kiyoko was detective and she thinks Ardonye is town.
That's what I gathered from this too. I feel like we can put it down on record that Kiyo was the detective role. We are also in a position of being able to believe Ardonye is Town based on
Kiyoko: Kiyoko is not currently inclined to think that Ardonye is mafia.
I feel there's no other way to interpret that than she investigated and Ardonye came up town. So at least from the bad, we got some good. And someone else was cleared. Which is exactly what we need right now.
As for the actual rollover...
On This Big Morning Mess nautilus wrote:
Room #26 [The Legend of Nautilus: Mafia’s Mask] was locked!
An attempt was made on a room, but it failed!
Kiyoko has been killed! She was killed in ROOM #4 [死死死死 ｔｈｅ ｒｏｏｍ ｏｆ ｙｏｕｒ ＤＲＥＡＭＳ 死死死死]! She was the STUDENT. She was TOWN.
Room #4 [死死死死 ｔｈｅ ｒｏｏｍ ｏｆ ｙｏｕｒ ＤＲＥＡＭＳ 死死死死] has been destroyed! No one may enter it on future nights!
The sacrificial lamb has been killed. He who lurks in the subconsciousness of men is now in play.
Ugh.
Room locking, we know how that works. Safe to say it can happen every night which is great if town, bad if mafia. But I think we can agree it's at least town-leaning. As far as I know we don't know of anybody who was in Room 26 last night so we can't speculate on that.
EDIT: Lux reminded me this wasn't true, Rasei was in Room 26. I missed that one.
Kiyo's death is somewhat complicated but I'm inclined to
mostly agree on what's been speculated thus far based on Kotakia's results. It fits in line with what happened really well. If she's lying and made it up on the spot, damn gurl.
So according to Kotakia, we have a targeting vig role that can hit once and then blows up the room and runs amok later possibly killing anyone in the room it chooses to explode in. Am I reading correctly that that specific part only happens after every 2 nights of no kills? Did it specify night kills or do lynches count as well?
I actually am not entirely sure this is a mafia role to be perfectly honest. Yes it is certainly anti-town and worthy of concern, but the fact that you said
I can only hope it inadvertently kills some mafia who released it as time goes on.
makes me wonder.
I don't think a mafia role would have the chance of inadvertently killing a mafia member. Especially in a game where a mafia accidentally killing themselves would tip the balance pretty hard due to playercount like this. We have one neutral role. I think it's more likely that this is it. If I'm correct in how I'm reading Kotakia's post, it kills indiscriminately after a certain point and, to me, that screams scummy neutral.
An attempt was made, but failed. Safe to say this is a failed mafia NK, which backs up the idea Kiyo was killed by Kotakia's investigated role.
Also, are we sure the "sacrifical lamb" part of the rollover text refers to the room exploding role that killed Kiyo? I'm not strictly sure by my reading that it is. Obviously it targeted Kiyo but a "sacrifical lamb" sounds like something that is wholly different than a targeted kill and room explosion. To me it more sounds like something that made her die for someone else and now an effect is in play.
If anyone has information they have not shared about this one or the possibility of the exploding room role being a neutral role, please speak up.
On RoomclaimI stayed in my room last night. Someone else also stayed in my room with me last night. This is my 2nd night of staying in my room so I will be moving tonight.
On Speculation and Putting People Uncomfortably Under the LightI have some major problems with some things being said and some unresolved situations. Lets talk about those.
1:Mr Alice This just kind of blew over and we're not talking about it anymore. We have a roleclaim from Mr Alice about how her role works. I'm not strictly sure if I believe that clears her at all, myself. Her explanations for things were poor. She flat out said "I DONT KNOW. IS VIG A FUN ROLE?" and didn't immediately reveal information when we told her it was that or death, essentially. When I asked her if she'd rather die, she said yes. And now she is conveniently gone today as well.
For me, I agree with how Kiyo was thinking, this feels like Mafia direction by somebody more experienced than Mr Alice. I feel like she is doing the absolute bare minimum in terms of placating us. She's not giving a lot of information, and now she's off the radar again. When she was immediately grilled after her silence, there was a period of time before we got anything useful out of her that was not "I'M NOT MAFIA"
Her claimed role is not strictly something that can be immediately discerned as town aligned. I don't think she's lying about it, and if she
is lying about it the role stands a chance of being another Mafia member's role.
Worst case scenario: She is not lying. Is being directed. Is mafia. And now has a freaking gun that she was actually encouraged to shoot to prove her township.
That is a bad idea.
I feel this warrants a bit more pressing discussion than it's received.
This is not me pushing for a lynch on Mr Alice. This is me pushing for discussion on something that was on our radar before, has not been resolved, and has increased in danger. I think a plan we can agree on is needed more than anything.
I don't think I'm the only one that feels this way.
EDIT:
Alca wrote:☛ Mr. Alice *
* I know that people don't necessarily think Mr. Alice is town, but I think her role claim is real and that is her actual role, and it's a role that you wouldn't give to mafia because that would allow mafia to select from essentially any role ability in the game, which is incredibly over-powered.
I don't disagree with your way of thinking with this. But I think it's completely possible that it could be a mafia aligned role if we think in terms of the fact that the role grabbing ability could be random, or we think in terms of the fact that something as vaguely named as "Student" ended up being a detective role and we would not have known that unless Kiyo posted a giant list from the playtest. It doesn't seem like it would be out of place here. I have been in Mafia games before where this exact kind of body-snatching role has been mafia-aligned. I can't be the only one here.
I am leaning towards it being her actual role, I just don't know for sure what that implies personally.
2: Posts I Want Explained Tiki wrote:Forgot about the lamb bit. Guessing someone made Kiyo a "sacrificial lamb" (good choice). I'd lean Town or Neutral to that, since it sounds like something that would be a surprise for anyone who it them with a targeted kill
...
I'm leaning neutral on it, since I could see someone just going, "Hey, I made this person a lamb, so they're safest to kill, and even if we're wrong, we'll still gain a benefit!"
Why would making Kiyo a sacrificial lamb be a good choice at all?
Why would making Kiyo a sacrificial lamb be a town aligned role when it's obvious she was helping town?
Why would making Kiyo a sacrificial lamb be something that was immediately apparent to be beneficial when she's been nothing but immensely helpful? We didn't know she was a detective and that at least in her dying we'd get someone cleared.
Please explain. This doesn't make sense to me at all.
Alcasync wrote:Oh also umm, I have more info. Rasei didn't send in the bomb action or the NK
I can agree that Rasei didn't send in the bomb action, as that was an action you needed to target to be successful in from what we know. But why could she not have send in the NK when the NK failed and she said she bounced off a room because it was full? Or is this role related?
(I'm operating on the pretense you edited this after Rasei posted her information. I actually just have a lot of posts up in other tabs I want to reference so I don't know the actual chronological order these were made in.)
EDIT: Missed this one
high seraph wrote:Also alca please talk to us about why you're voting chinomi because if chinomi is mafia then I'm willing to believe both Kotakia and plot are also mafia, do you think that's likely? With only one vote change allowed, I don't think you'd be randomly voting at this point, so this is clearly something you put some thought on and have good reasons that we'd be very interested to hear ok
I do see the logic of chinomi being on the radar in terms of unconfirmed elements that doesn't exclude her from being mafia. But I do somewhat agree with high seraph here in that I kind of think there are more pressingly dangerous or concerningly suspicious people. Along with the fact that there are some connections to chinomi that seem notably town. Can you expand a bit on that choice?
On Lynching:I would like more discussion before we make any solid decisions on who to lynch. I don't strictly think that if we mislynch it's the end of the world, the mafia kill failed last night and the kill was a one shot kill that can't happen again if Kotakia is to be believed, but if we can avoid mislynching that would be swell.
I agree with what Kiyo was saying before in that in lieu of a better option, policy lynching inactives is probably the best choice. People who haven't posted up very meaningful posts or sparse posts are up there for me. deo was voted for a lot before, but has posted at least to confirm they were alive. plotstickers has been not posting that often, but there was some talk of them having actually submitted an action. Sammiya has actually only posted recently to explosively defend Mr Alice, and almost every post beforehand has had something to do with defending Mr Alice or otherwise suggesting Mr Alice's role could be something not mafia aligned. With the exception of D1 activity talking about NLing. That's kind of weird to me.
I think we'd stand a lot to gain if all of these people posted up with their thoughts.
Think I covered everything I wanted to. Thanks to Luxaria for attempting to fill her father's gigantic infodump shoes.
Lets have some more discussion.
EDIT: Spelling. Grammar. H'orderves.
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