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Vampires win! COTN

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76 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Sun Jul 05, 2015 8:52 pm

Yep, you're right, Luxaria! Sorry, I should have said "Next night will likely be a full moon."

EDIT: Creatures of the Pagetop!

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77 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:38 am

Oh no Kiyoko why?! ;w;

I really loved the witch role too, I was looking forward to seeing it used because I've never heard of such a role before. I feel like this is a loss for town, even though the chances of having a powerful role killed (4 out of 7 towns) were moderately high.

Also, nobody's getting close to lynched so far so I don't think there's any need for role claims yet.

Vote : drandahl

PS. Happy belated 4th of July!

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78 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:00 am

AofOz, any reason for voting me? I'm a little confused here.

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79 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:01 am

Everyone's voting so I figured I'd do the same~


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80 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:01 am

Oh gdangit there goes Kiyoko.

What we know - Kiyo is a strong player with lots of speculation so by eliminating her it makes the mafia better able to blend in when aside from a few players, most people don't get into giant tl;dr breakdowns.


So it looks like alca changed her target from yesterday so that means shot in the dark talking votes probably.

@drandahl any particular reason there sport? also lol @ you asking AoZ why when you did the same to me.


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81 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 8:43 am

nvn

unvote, vote: drandahl

I do wonder why everyone keeps asking for reasons behind votes, when it seems pretty obvious that there are only two real reasons this early in the game. Either the person is random-voting for discussion, or they are a power role with information. If someone is town, then they should know that a vote on them isn't from a power role investigation anyway. Otherwise, we maybe shouldn't be asking questions whose answer might be, "Because I'm the detective."

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82 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 9:46 am

Just a heads up: this week and the next I'll be really sporadic in terms of activity, since I'm currently doing something between 4am PST-2pm PST (and I'll only be on around my lunch hour) every day. I'll probably make a post a day because I'll be gone for so much of the phase. Cthulu - if activity becomes a problem, I'll let you know. :(

That being said:

Kiyoko was probably killed because of her playing ability and skill, which suggests that mafia views her as a significant threat. Presumably we can loop around and surmise that it might be plausible that it was a random kill, but this seems like a pretty targeted attack to me. I can't think of any ways to loop this back to the identity of the mafia, since I think we all have played against Kiyoko (so no chance of an unfamiliar mafia) + the "strong players as mafia/weak players as mafia" argument tends to be rather ... the perspective of strong/weak depends on who's looking, really and is hard to base an argument off of.

The good news is that it's very likely werewolf will be able to act tomorrow unless the RNG kicks us in the teeth, so we have a psuedo-investivig.

Finally: I kind of agree with alca with respect to the idea that this early on in the game, people are going to either vote randomly (or in the case of MonHun, they're going to direct their vote to either someone they don't know anything about, or someone they investigated who flipped vampire). Even if someone were to vote someone but actually be a mafia voting for town, they could easily say that they're random voting and it gets us nowhere. If someone had a pointed reason to vote for someone (e.g. mafia voting for town, MonHun voting for mafia or unknown person), it's in their best benefit to lie anyways or give a vague, non-committal answer of "because reasons" because there... is no doctor at the moment and the witch is dead, if MonHun claims* unnecessarily then MonHun is basically dead, and mafia obviously won't say "I'm trying to lynch because I'm mafia").

I do think that some of the reactions to votes in the thread so far may be because of overreaction or unfamiliarity or just wariness of being voted on (e.g. someone is MonHun and got voted on and is afraid to get lynched by accident), but overdefensiveness and panic can also seem really indicative of mafia, since mafia has to front a role of town as much as possible.

That being said, it's hard to press against someone whose literal reason for voting/being voted on was "whoops, RNG" but the reactions to votes has been interesting so far. Or maybe it's just because I had basically the most dull response to Kiyoko's vote (hi kouhai), haha.

That being said, I'm willing to switch votes to drandahl to hammer the lynch because we could end up with an invisible tie if the votes become scattered due to the invisibility of mayorvote and werelordvote, but I'll be around later today if needed and things wildly change. I have some vague feelings about people but nothing super concrete yet.

*MonHun, if you're new and you get a mafia member, please wait and watch (instead of going I'm MonHun and I investigated x and got x lynch them) and see what happens before you claim because depending on the behavior of other players you can determine who the other mafia member is without immediately giving away your identity at the top of the phase. Become the mafia David Attenborough. Do not become the mafia David Attenborough if you believe the mafia is jerking around the town a lot/the lynch isn't working or the situation is currently quite dire.

Also mafia = vampires.

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83 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:05 am

Sammiya

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Ahh, Kiyoko!! Nooooo. Poor witchy Kiyoko, It's sad when the witches are killed, at least when they're town.

But everyone has good points, but not quite sure whom to vote for quite yet. I'll hold off a bit longer in case anything comes up, but will vote before roll-over, and it will be for another player over no vote/lynch.

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84 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:09 am

nautilus wrote:That being said, I'm willing to switch votes to drandahl to hammer the lynch because we could end up with an invisible tie if the votes become scattered due to the invisibility of mayorvote and werelordvote, but I'll be around later today if needed and things wildly change. I have some vague feelings about people but nothing super concrete yet.

I would not recommend this unless you have a reason to suspect drandahl. My vote was to push a tie situation between two people so that we don't get a repeat of Day 1 where everyone has one vote on them from random voting and then everyone switches to no lynch. If a bandwagon forms, I will switch my vote to Kotakia to keep the tie.

That said, I don't not suspect drandahl either. nvn

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85 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:25 am

I'll admit that me randomly voting is a bit strange since in past games I've never done that, and I've always questioned people for voting like this. =w= I'm still new to how mafia works but after reading a few games I decided that it wouldn't hurt to random vote. It does seem to get good reactions and start discussions sometimes... (I should know, I reacted when I got voted during tropes game. Aha...)

I don't really blame drandahl for questioning my vote though. Sorry ;o;

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86 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:49 am

I would not recommend this unless you have a reason to suspect drandahl. My vote was to push a tie situation between two people so that we don't get a repeat of Day 1 where everyone has one vote on them from random voting and then everyone switches to no lynch. If a bandwagon forms, I will switch my vote to Kotakia to keep the tie.

Ohhh, okay. If the intention is to force a tie, then I'm certainly fine with leaving the lynch as is; I just have a predisposition against ties and like to hammer them whenever plausible since ties can encourage excessive last minute of the phase voting on one en (which... which peeves me, a lot, except when I'm mafia and it's a necessity).

That being said, forcing a psuedo-tie (1 person is a vote above the others) instead of going for the immediate hammer also gives us clues to the identity of the mayor and the werelord/mafia presuming that the rollover is messed with, so nevermind about hammering lynches whoops

I am also posting when I should be working, shhhh.

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87 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 10:52 am

it is a good point that we can find out information about mayor/vamp lord/werewolf through having a tie if one of the tie-ee targets is mafia (or is the mayor). i'm willing to play as one half of a tie if y'all think it'd give us more information.

tbh i had a dumb idea d1 to have everyone vote for a random person and no one overlap and see if any votes shift, but i figured is stupid and dangerous.


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88 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:25 am

Kotakia wrote:tbh i had a dumb idea d1 to have everyone vote for a random person and no one overlap and see if any votes shift, but i figured is stupid and dangerous.

It's a nice thought! But since we know that mafia can control one of the votes, I think that probably would have ended poorly for town. ;v;

On that note, I'm not sure how useful it might be to use a tie to identify the mayor or werewolf? Especially since we know one is a town-aligned double vote and the other is a mafia-aligned vote change, unless we know which one is which it will be hard to figure out of a vote change was used to save a mafia from a lynch or not. I do think scatter voting is very dangerous though and would prefer a two-way tie, rather than a five-way one!

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89 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:37 am

So, Kiyoko's death is especially interesting to me because it works into some of my initial thoughts as to whom the vampire lord targeted on N0. It's not conclusive, obviously, but I suppose it's a start to understanding the mentality of the mafpires. However, it truly does suck to lose the witch right off the bat. Not only does this remove one of our power roles, but some of the other power roles would still get results even if they died that phase. Now? Not so much. Them hitting the witch is actually the best result they could have hoped for.

@ Random voting reactions. Eh, I can understand the reactions behind being voted on. I mean, I see it as trying to generate discussion and develop reads in its own way, since otherwise it gets far too perfunctory if the metagame is to have all nine of us throw out noncommital votes with complete indifference and no commentary until one person is lynched. Hmm, though that does have certain advantages.

But anyway, I am inclined to agree with Alcasync that I want us to pursue a visible tie. I think the invisible tie you speak of, Nautilus, has too many variables around it for us to really consider right this moment. The pseudo tie is an interesting proposition, but... Hmmm. I feel more comfortable with leaving the vote to a matter of RNG vs Werelord (vs Mayor), as opposed to picking one player to target and then trying to glean information from it. Though, there are nine of us, aren't there? That means we're going to end up 5-4 if everyone votes and we split down the middle, with one side having another vote, and then the werelord shenanigans. Unless we do 3:3:3 votes? That... would prompt more targets to speak up, greater chance of catching a mafia, and the mayor and werelord votes would be more spread to cause some interesting shenanigans.

I actually really like 3:3:3, but that requires everyone to vote before rollover. Eeeeh. Soft-tie for now, just to see what happens.

Vote: Kotakia just to maintain the tie. I'm sorry ;w; Also, your idea of a huge tie between all players is cheeky.

@ Alca, since you posted while I was typing, I'm encouraging of a 2-way or 3-way tie not to necessarily find the werewolf or mayor, but more to increase the chances of A) Catching a Mafpire in a vote, B) Seeing if any shenanigans happen with regards to the vote (Mayor gains insider knowledge, too, which helps them develop reads from the situation), and C) Allows for RNG to remain a plausible safety net to encourage people to both talk, utilize roles, or try and sneak something in. Also, if we're just targeting one person with votes or doing a pseudo tie, the mafpires gain more control over the situation and only one target is forced to really talk, whereas with a tie two targets (and thus the people accusing them) are equally threatened. It would suck if we somehow target two of our power roles, though.

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90 Re: Vampires win! COTN on Mon Jul 06, 2015 12:31 pm

I fully expect power roles to not let us lynch them. If they don't say anything in their own defense and we end up lynching them then that's on them. Which is also why I'm really hoping everyone will show up and post/vote, since I don't want to end up with players dying when it could be prevented, due to them not being around to say anything.

Speaking of which! Where is high seraph? I haven't seen him since D1.

Also, I'm fine with a three-way tie. I would rather there be a three-way tie than a two-way tie on two townies, but we also don't have many players and a three-way tie would require I think at least six people to vote, so that we could have two on each person.

Edit: That said, I think Kotakia is either vanilla town or bluffing mafia. I don't think a power role would be so easygoing about being put on the chopping block, unless she plans to roleclaim later in the phase?

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