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Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4

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46 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:59 am

I don't think at this point I'll wake myself up before rollover if it's done early (which is fine by me!!) so I did a thing! We will see how well it works out 'v' I'm interested to see how this all works out and maybe we will have a better game plan next time lol


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47 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:36 am

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I think that its more in our favour to at least try to plan publicly. If we yolo, then it makes us much easier targets for being isolated and harming the ratio. If nothing else, at least two other people need to come to the med bay with me because a lynch + a public alignment flip with the person still being alive is really strongly in town's favour.

(im at work so I can't post a long thing, but I really really encourage people to at least pre claim a room. that gives us more information to potentially work with if they're nk'd)

edit to add more elaboration:

I think that the town benefits most from sharing information. the more we know gives us more control over this situation. The mafia is going to thrive in a town that isn't sharing everything-- which is the paranoia part of this sci-fi.

For example, if I say I'm going to say the cargo hold, and no one else claimed being alone, that means that if the ratio goes up by one maf, there's a good chance I was honest, alone, and thus converted and should be incinerated by the town. If we can keep some tabs on everyone's whereabouts, we can give the mafia as little conversion room possible, which should be the goal.

There is a pretty large town right now, and even if we take a few night kills, I think that's better than ending up in a situation like 4 maf and 5 town left.


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48 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:52 am

I think we should at least partially plan publicly, tbh. definitely not in detail, but at least roughly - I don't like leaving things to coincidences, they tend to mess with me. make a rough outline, at the very least plan ship tasks, and trust people to be reasonable with the rest.

I'll come with ninfia to the med bay, cause I'm too exhausted to plan properly tbh.


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49 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:36 am

re: room choices, idk man, should we just yolo it? I feel like trying to preplan it just makes it easier for maf to plan.

I get this point, and I think I brought it up earlier in a previous post that, say we tell Person A/B/C to go into X room to initiate a ship task, then it's likely that the mafia will counter that and elect to target someone who isn't part of that ship task (assuming that the two players with them in the ship task aren't mafia) since then that ups their chances of getting an infected kill off.

At the same time though, I feel like preplanning actions or at least having an idea of where to go next reins in the chance of players lying, since we can infer from conversion or kills if people are lying (since the ratio is ? probably going to be public ?), which is crucial since we no longer have the benefit of knowing how many people are in the rooms with us and therefore can't draw up usual charts. I would perhaps advocate a middle ground where we're not explicitly going "x goes to x" to keep some ambiguity for the mafia, but I'm not sure how effective that would be.

I would ordinarily venture that our best bet would be to prioritize about 3-4 rooms with the strongest town-leaning role powers and emphasize heading there... but then... If we're all there, we can't guarantee anyone gets role powers, and infected can go elsewhere unimpeded.

My thoughts too, since I feel like if we were all going to huddle in one room at least one player has to risk being alone for any of us to even get role powers. Unless... Watch your Back only applies for 2 people in a room, correct? Not 3 or more?

... For what it's worth I just realized that the power of the detective in this game will likely be diluted because there are conversions afoot.

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50 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:18 pm

I have to go to work. I picked a random room that has an item from a d6.


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51 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:29 pm

n☆util☆s wrote: Unless... Watch your Back only applies for 2 people in a room, correct? Not 3 or more? .

Correct. It only applies to when there are Exactly two people in a Room. If there are three or more, Ship Tasks can be completed.

Basically, if there is only one other person with you, the paranoia takes hold and you both kinda end up staring each other down with your backs to the wall for hours. If there are three or more people, then you have the comfort of knowing that you all kinda keep your eyes on each other, and that everyone is being watched by someone at all times.

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52 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:30 pm

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#2spooky4me

but no in all seriousness I'm glad someone else is going to the med bay with me ;w; I hope someone else comes along, hahah.


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53 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:47 pm

On my phone. Random thought. Might be too late in the phase, but:

12 players. What if we divide into four groups of three? Assign each group to a room. Make it high priority rooms.

All three players choose to ship task. Tomorrow, we would conduct 4 ship tasks. Whichever one does not conduct a ship task has a mafia that went to get a role. Also means town are less likely to convert. Only chance is if both mafia are in a room with a town. In which case we would know one set of three are guaranteed mafia. Easy to test at that point.

Thoughts? Only six hours left so not everyone might see it.


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54 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:56 pm

Ninfia

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You're much better at wording things than me, haha.

I'm down. Ezz and I are locked into medbay, and Rasei is random, but hopefully we can at least get two or three rooms filled? this would probably be a good idea for next night phase to try and make sure we get some concrete info.


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55 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:04 pm

Going down the list:

Med Bay - Check an alignment
Laboratory - Check an alignment, roughly
Security Station - Block off access to a room
Brig - Lock a player up
Server Room - Determine roles in play
Cargo Hold - Generate a role

These might be the most useful ones to have D1, if we divide into four groups. Armory and Galley are also worth consideration for the sake of blocking up to two potential additional kills on the side of infected.

Med Bay and Laboratory preserve our Detective and Protect roles. Also gives us a way to check two alignments, when in theory no one can convert yet. If we take Brig as well, it might let us blitz down the game a little bit:

1. NK Target, flips due to being in a room with other players
2. Med Bay ship task target
3. Laboratory ship task target, flips alignment or converts back into a town
4. Brig prevents someone from getting a role
5. Standard lynch target provides an alignment flip

This means we'd know for certain the alignment of four players, up to three of which might be dead. If those are all town, we're down to 2:7 worst-case scenario, barring conversions which this plan in theory prevents (3:6 if so). It's not the worst place to be.

We could also elect to use the cargo hold to guarantee a role is distributed, but it might go to a mafia, so that's risky. The server room would let us know if someone did steal a role in the night, so we know not to waste time trying to explore that room.

In a perfect world, we'd keep the med bay and laboratory in town control for the entire game. Those two seem the most beneficial for us to retain.

Thoughts? Checking some things with the host in the meanwhile.

Edit: how2math. Revised 2:9 to 2:7.

But worst-case scenario of 2:7 also puts us in position to do Med Bay and Laboratory ship task on the following night phase, too, leaving Engineering for N2 unless we win the game by then by pushing through alignments so quickly.


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56 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:12 pm

I'm comfortable leaving engineering until N2. I think town is more willing to cooperate than mafia, even in a situation that might end the game for both sides, because mafia currently only has two people and won't want to lose half their team doing the engineering ship task if they can get a town to do it instead. So I think it's more important to spend the early phases getting items before mafia can get them.

Umm! I'm not going to claim my action because I don't want mafia to know if I'm likely to be alone or not, but I guess I'll say that there's a 50% chance of me going to the med bay and a 50% chance of me going to a different room to go for an item. (Don't count on me as the third person for the med bay though!) ;v;


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57 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:43 pm

I'd be down for Lux's plan, but the issue remains that I think several people have already submitted their actions by this point and aren't coming back (Rasei, Aeiou), and therefore we won't be able to split perfectly into groups of 4.

Of the roles listed I do agree that Med Bay and Laboratory would be the best ones to prioritize; if I had to choose one over the other I'd... actually say Laboratory over Med Bay because of the possibilities of conversion neutering any alignment flips we do.

I'll do basically what alca did and I'm gonna say that maybe I submitted a PM for the Med Bay, but maybe I changed it. Maybe.

It's a mystery to everyone.

Claimed Movements:
alcasync - maybe med bay, maybe elsewhere
ezzelin - Med Bay
Ninfia - Med Bay
nautilus - maybe med bay, maybe elsewhere
Rasei - ? (indicated they went to a room, never claimed)
Aeiou - ? (indicated they went to a room, never claimed)
Tiki the Troll - ? (indicated they went to a room, never claimed)

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58 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:59 pm

Hmm.

I'm fine with some level of coordination, but I also feel like ship tasks might be better to net outside of D1. Going with your plan, Lux, allows maf to have free reign of explore actions in two rooms. We have the advantage in numbers right now. I know others have said this already, but I feel like priority should be in collecting items until we have more info to know who to trust.

Happy to coordinate around a plan, and happy to change my action if Entehost will allow it, but for now I've selected a room at random and won't be communicating where I'm going.

I do think we should be more proactive in communication as the game goes on though, compared to other games. There are a lot of options for play, so it's way too easy to be out-coordinated by mafia.

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59 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:12 pm

hello its me your space friend Lucas ☆!

ok to be honest there are a lot of rooms and its kind of overwhelming, but I do think that doing some level of pre-planning is going to be useful to the town, although I'm not sure what level of pre-planning would be appropriate to give us the upper hand and still guarantee our survival just yet. I think the safest approach is to create teams that will stick together and focus on Ship Tasks rather than exploring, since most of the Ship Tasks seem to benefit town the most. Some gear can definitely help us, but planning to go to a room for exploration in the thread is pretty much an invitation for the Infected to go after that player...

A quick run-down on the room mechanics:

EXPLORESHIP TASK
1
x
2
x
x
3+
x
* For a Ship Task to happen, at least 3 people must have chosen to perform it.
** I'm never going to BB code a table for a game again.



There are 10 of us and 11 rooms. I don't think we should ever add the 2 infected players in our room strategies because, honestly, even if they should be worried about the game-ending events, I think they will most likely ignore them because we will already be running around trying to repair the ship. Ultimately, we're more interested in preventing game-ending events from happening than the infected are.

Like I said, I think the safest way to go through this game is to form groups and stick together. This way we can considerably reduce the likeliness of more people becoming infected, which can turn the ratio around really fast, and have a better shot of performing some Ship Tasks that can be really useful to us. So, keeping this in mind, my suggestion is that we should divide ourselves in two groups of 6 players (this incorporates both crew members and infected because we can't pinpoint who the infected are at the moment, so we can't just remove them from our plans entirely rn). We should pick two priority rooms to perform Ship Tasks in and everyone in their assigned group would go to the room that was put under their jurisdiction.

To illustrate, let's say Team α is Luxaria, Kiyoko, Mr. Alice, high seraph and Aeiou, and Team β is ezzelin, drandahl, Rasei, Tiki, alca and nautilus. (I simply cut the player list in the middle btw, I didn't put any thought into how these Teams are built). We can assign Team α to do a Ship Task at Engineering, and Team β can go to the Med Bay, for example. Since there are 6 assigned members to each team, some members can feel free to go rogue and act by themselves and visit other rooms, but it would be better if those people didn't claim their actions at least before the end of the phase, or they'd end up influencing the mafia's NK choice (unless you want to gamble and play mind games with the infected??). Additionally, if they manage get a piece of gear, the mafia probably shouldn't be immediately made aware of it anyway.

This plan has the obvious drawback that the mafia will not stick to the group. For example, if one among Team β is mafia, they wouldn't want to go into the Med Bay and perform a Ship Task, as they'd risk having their alignment revealed. And by agreeing to go to two specific places gives the infected more security to go to other rooms and grab the gear for themselves... But I think that lowering the rist of infection is more important??

In any case, I think, even if some players decide to act independently, which is a valid course of action, there would still be a high chance of succeeding at a Ship Task. It's actually really important that some people do act independently to lower the infected's chances of getting gear from the rooms that weren't assigned to any of the teams, and if these people aren't especially loud about it, they will have a better shot at doing that.

Ultimately, we'll all still have freedom to go out alone, but we'll be safer by cooperating closely and not giving the mafia too much information. I realize I'm saying this too far into the phase for this strategy to actually go into effect immediately, but we can at least discuss this further during the next few hours and see if this is only working in my head lmao.

ok ninja'd i see lux has proposed a similar plan but with smaller groups. I'm just going to post this for now and read the ninja posts closely.



Last edited by high seraph on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:19 pm; edited 1 time in total


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[16:41:36] lucasssss: "lucas i want u to bus me and lynch me this phase"
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60 Re: Welcome to Katabasis Station, Work Shift 4 on Wed Feb 17, 2016 2:16 pm

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Hey as a heads up, I'm going through some random irl crap I don't really want to talk about (that a few people know about because I've been complaining about it all day) and may not have my head fully in the game. Will do my best, though.

Action-wise, I'm going for the same thing as alca/Mitsu. 50% chance med bay, 50% chance exploring some other location.


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