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Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN]

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61 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 9:05 am

Kiyoko

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re: any questions directed at me about priority

Kiyoko wrote:Also before anybody asks, the priority is BUS > STUN > PROTECT > NK

you get nothing else


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62 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 11:31 am

high seraph wrote:What I mean is, I didn't manage to get a clear read on T3t's alignment just yet. Is he really a follower of the Helix? Is he just posing as a believer and is secretly acting against its teachings?

I have never been so insulted in all my life.





MY WILL BE DONE





Like nearly all D1s, we don't have a lot to go off of. So it is time to indiscriminately rain down on any nonbeliever that has shaky reasoning with a holy vengeance that may or may not yield fruit. But it is in His name so it will be done.

The Helix has called for blood and blood there shall be.



Personally I was looking at Cure, Lux, and Tiki the hardest. Tiki simply by nature of his existing. Lux and Cure for their explanations and speculation casting doubt on what was the surest thing we knew at the time, my not sending in the NK.

Yes I could be maf and just not have sent in the night kill. Literally anyone could, that's established fact. But up and saying that right off the bat to establish the possibility before anything else was said, with no further explanation or reason to go into it... That kind of rubs me the wrong way. It's either misdirection or a high level of paranoia and fear brought over from my being maf from past games. Which is completely understandable (especially for Lux), but I don't believe it would supersede the need to immediately show an interest in investigating who actually sent in the NK first.



Lux's explanation has some things that still bother me, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt for now due to her tell-all explanation novel "Rollover and Me". My suspicions of Tiki are literally baseless and I can recognize that enough to not follow it for now.

Cure has some good points and made a good case for herself. Though for me, that does not shake how scummy it is to discourage investigation and documenting at any point in a game where that's literally all we have in terms of information. That combined with the fact that she was pushing so hard how I wanted alca dead when I was maf in a previous game to then be shot down by Ninfia who was also in the same (best ever) mafia team that game with me, it's enough to throw my vote on her. These situations are kind of why I dislike the speculation based on previous game mentality (except for Tiki who deserves it), it becomes an entirely personal affair based on nothing in the current game. But other factors are also at play here.

Just the discouraging documenting actions thing would be enough for me, but that's combining with earlier suspicions to make it a solid try. We don't exactly have a lot to go on and it would be unwise not to lynch someone, I feel it's our best option.


VOTE: Cure

for losing 5 games of DOTA in a row.

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63 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 12:53 pm

Ninfia wrote: This being said, I think that Cure's reasoning for looking at t3t so hard is pretty weak. I was maf in that game too. T3t didn't seem like he was out for Alca's blood, he seemed like he wanted to address a threat. we all did.

so I'm a little suspicious of you trying to pin the nk on his logic. it's clear he did not send in the nk, but you're trying to see his fingerprints on it anyway. that being said, I wouldn't say t3t is completely innocent because I think its too early in the game to clear anyone, but I would say there are other places to look for now.

Interesting. I'm not looking at tet hard at all, actually. And I'm not saying he sent in the NK. I agree that he could not have sent in the NK, and I don't want him to vote today. all I'm saying is that he cannot be ruled out as mafia, and provided a reason why. (Namely it was in reply to rasei going "I will absolutely not vote tet today". Not sending in the NK does not make you cleared.).

Apparently being aggressive = scummy now. Duly noted.

Lol if I get lynched it'll be the first time I've ever been mislynched in a game, this is pretty depressing. Oh well, it was bound to happen someday.

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64 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:06 pm

Cure wrote:I personally think outing everyone's actions is not completely in our favor, but since everyone seems to think it's a good idea. :\ My target was Ninfia.

I understand your reservations, since they're entirely reasonable, but I suppose the main reason I've decided to encourage the claiming is because no one is tied down to their actions each night. I did a bus last night and explained my reasoning, but next night phase I could just as easily change gears and pursue a protect or stun. Since we can all do this with both actions and target(s), when we claim it helps establish our opinions on players. From there, we can ferret out inconsistencies and/or develop better reads on players. Yeah, mafia can completely lie and slip under the radar, but they can do that in almost* any other game as well. However, since we lack an ability to vote outside of our one vote each phase, I believe this discussion is a good way for us to feel each other out. Also, we can still make some deductions regarding role claims and role effects through a "if this, then that" sort of checklist.

Is all of this worth arming mafia with more information? I think so. They have no more control over the roles than we do. They could put 3 people on one role action and still get RNG'd out of it. I think their organization and knowledge of what three players will do each night is going to slightly favor them with the role actions no matter what, so town using claims as a way to talk and add to the discussion seems good to me.

Maybe I'm wildly off-base with my interpretation, since usually I think it's ideal to hold back information and read between the lines. In this case, though, if we did not claim... then I feel like town would be too much in the dark. In other games, you would at least know the results of your own action and that others (probably) got theirs off. For this game, we don't even have that luxury, so I think town gains the most from cooperating in this case.

Hmm... Some good insights from the posts in this thread. Nothing leaps out at me to address right this moment, so I'll come back to them later if necessary. I'm going to be playing Life is Strange alongside a friend in a short while, but I do want to come back and get a vote in on someone before rollover. As drandahl suggested, due to town having the safety of needing to be outnumbered, we can afford to be bullish. Also, we have no other reliable way to kill mafia, so...

I'm leaning towards someone more quiet or low on contribution. Mr. Alice, Sammiya, and Rasei stand out most until they say more. I am a bit wary of Cure's statements/stances on sharing information, though I can see that her posts might be done with good intentions behind them. It also seems out of place for a mafia to single themself out to such a degree. Plus she's been very talkative, which I appreciate.

(.... P.S. @ Kiyoko: So if it gets down to 1T:1M, mafia has to kill the last town to win, right?)

(Also, since I forgot I had this open in the preview box for like an hour and Cure posted: Cure, which player or players would you be most comfortable lynching this phase? Same for anyone that's not T3t, I guess, since he's already committed, and a few other posts have indicated some preferences. But all the same!)


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65 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:15 pm

@Lux: Ninfia, Tiki, anyone who has been heavily parroting the FOS on me and following the script of "Gee wow Cure it's so weird you don't want to talk about actions. Wow why are you suspcious of Tet so much you sure are heavily side-eyeing him this is so scummy". I had no plans at all to vote tet and wasn't even suspicious of him until he flipped out on me. Also wouldn't mind voting someone like Rasei or Blaire

My initial mention of tet was just a cautionary "don't rule him out as mafia" to the people who were going "yeah I won't vote tet!" and people made it out to be way more than it was.

Tbh, if I were a mafia member I would deserve to be shot, not lynched, for attracting so much attention in thread on D1. It'd be so colossally stupid to be as aggressive and, I guess, controversial with my opinions as I have been. I'm actually offended that anyone would think I'd be that stupid. UvU

My thoughts on sharing actions are along the lines of: Actions for N0 don't really give us any information other than a rudimentary (and kind of stupid) "player tier list" which always puts a bad taste in my mouth. On n0 people are just going to target those they find to be strong players, or threatening players, so the actions for the day would mostly be targets of player bias. :O there's no reason to suspect anyone on n0, so actions won't really demonstrate an actual suspect list. It'll be much more helpful on consecutive nights, imo. I should have been more specific in my initial post.

Also, any information we discuss, the mafia also has to work with. If we tell them how many protects and stuns we do--and imo the type of actions people have said they did so far has been very in line with people's personalities (eg. sammie protect, lux bus, ninfia stun, etc), and I wouldn't be surprised if people trend towards using one ability more than others (based on their personalities). It wouldn't be hard for mafia to predict actions and attempt to (not necessarily successfully, because rng) control all the night actions. Which is why I think just throwing all our information in the thread willy nilly isn't the best idea, but I can see why it's a topic of discussion, given it's all that we have.

Except this day phase has been all about how I'm scummy for being myself and I'm going to get lynched and you'll all have wasted an entire phase and that's pretty silly. If I DO get lynched, I'd look at the people who focused me most heavily, tbh.

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66 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:30 pm

Cure wrote:

Interesting. I'm not looking at tet hard at all, actually. And I'm not saying he sent in the NK. I agree that he could not have sent in the NK, and I don't want him to vote today. all I'm saying is that he cannot be ruled out as mafia, and provided a reason why. (Namely it was in reply to rasei going "I will absolutely not vote tet today". Not sending in the NK does not make you cleared.).

Apparently being aggressive = scummy now. Duly noted.

Lol if I get lynched it'll be the first time I've ever been mislynched in a game, this is pretty depressing. Oh well, it was bound to happen someday.

It's not a matter of being aggressive = being scummy or you saying my being mafia is unbelievable. I could very well be, just not the one that sent in the NK. The same as anyone else. We have nothing else to go off of at current and literally the only point of contention right now that I can see as viable is your discouraging information gathering and investigation combined with other loose suspicions. If you flip town, to me, that puts further spotlight on some other select people. Which is also useful information we stand to gain.

We have to lynch someone and I feel like you're the safest bet right now. Not because you're scummy, but because it's our best option given the information we have. If new information comes up to change that, I'm happy to shift the vote. I am actually agreeing with you on people blindly following the suspicion against you without explained reasoning being suspicious. It is not by any means a concrete and sure lynch. It never is D1. I think everyone knows that.

If others disagree with my interpretation on what is the safest lynch currently, I'd hope they'd speak up. In your opinion, who would you go for and why?



Don't be depressed if it ends up a mislynch. I literally have been lynched before for being the only person in the chat with a green name. Lynches are erratic and have no bearing on the person unless your name is Tiki. You're a great player, and great players tend to be the first to get attention as alcasync's dead body can attest to.

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67 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:40 pm

Cure wrote:My initial mention of tet was just a cautionary "don't rule him out as mafia" to the people who were going "yeah I won't vote tet!" and people made it out to be way more than it was.

...

Tbh, if I were a mafia member I would deserve to be shot, not lynched, for attracting so much attention in thread on D1. It'd be so colossally stupid to be as aggressive and, I guess, controversial with my opinions as I have been. I'm actually offended that anyone would think I'd be that stupid. UvU

This was my take on your posts, thus why I wanted to hear what T3t had to say. I am least likely to vote for T3t today given rollover matters and that I haven't felt concerned by any of his statements. I can see where the FoS is coming from since the tone used was possibly more accusative than intended, but, if earnest, I think I get where you're coming from. So to that end...

Cure wrote:Also, any information we discuss, the mafia also has to work with. If we tell them how many protects and stuns we do--and imo the type of actions people have said they did so far has been very in line with people's personalities (eg. sammie protect, lux bus, ninfia stun, etc), and I wouldn't be surprised if people trend towards using one ability more than other (based on their personalities). It wouldn't be hard for mafia to predict actions and attempt to (not necessarily successfully, because rng) control all the night actions.

This is my major hang-up with the information sharing, as well, but from my past post I think you can see that I personally feel the positives to out-weigh the negatives. While it's true it'll be much more helpful to share on future and consecutive nights, I think it's also useful to establish the claims now so we have more data points to work with going forward. Even if N0 is mostly just working off of a rudimentary tier list in many cases, we can sort of see some things we can contrast claims/choices against on future nights.

Anyway, the ship has sailed on the claims sharing at this point. Still leaning towards Mr. Alice, Sammiya, or Rasei until they post more. Curious to hear responses from Ninfia and Tiki after that last post. Also, drandahl, you were active at the start of the phase. What do you think coming back to the thread now? And Seraph, too!

I just like seeing posts, okay.

((Also, I'm in a hurry since my friend is now ready for Life is Strange, so I'll read your post when I get back, T3t.))


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68 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:42 pm

Oh don't worry Tet, I'm not actually upset. I'm just trying to make people realize what a terrible mistake they're making. >:3c I'll step on all of them.

I'd be most inclined to vote Ninfia at this moment, honestly. Or Rasei. Or anyone, really.

Also, tet, you can only vote once. You cannot change your vote. Your vote is locked in on me. Which is why what you're saying now after your vote on me is very confusing. I might just vote start9 if this bandwagon gets off to a... heh... start.

(get it it's a pun)

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69 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:48 pm

Cure wrote:Oh don't worry Tet, I'm not actually upset. I'm just trying to make people realize what a terrible mistake they're making. >:3c I'll step on all of them.

I'd be most inclined to vote Ninfia at this moment, honestly. Or Rasei. Or anyone, really.

Also, tet, you can only vote once. You cannot change your vote. Your vote is locked in on me. Which is why what you're saying now after your vote on me is very confusing. I might just vote start9 if this bandwagon gets off to a... heh... start.

(get it it's a pun)

Then I won't change my vote and I am going to continue stepping on you as is tradition.

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70 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:50 pm

Luxaria wrote:This was my take on your posts, thus why I wanted to hear what T3t had to say. I am least likely to vote for T3t today given rollover matters and that I haven't felt concerned by any of his statements. I can see where the FoS is coming from since the tone used was possibly more accusative than intended, but, if earnest, I think I get where you're coming from. So to that end...

UvU I'm just an aggressive person. Even if it's not the reason Tet voted me (tet did you not know the single vote limit? did you jump the gun on your vote tet?), it's the reason for the ~scummy feels~ people are getting.

Luxaria wrote:This is my major hang-up with the information sharing, as well, but from my past post I think you can see that I personally feel the positives to out-weigh the negatives. While it's true it'll be much more helpful to share on future and consecutive nights, I think it's also useful to establish the claims now so we have more data points to work with going forward. Even if N0 is mostly just working off of a rudimentary tier list in many cases, we can sort of see some things we can contrast claims/choices against on future nights.

Fair enough, I can see your point. I'm just someone who prefers to be reserved with information because the information can be used against us (also I really, really hate tier lists and I'd like it if we could all stop 'ranking' players that's just not cool let's not do that). However, if everyone is in agreement to share information, I'll be cooperative from this point on. We do have to take into account that the mafia can literally lie about their actions and there's actually no way to confirm that they're not because of Only One Action Goes Through. They can just claim protection (Honestly, I'd be shifty of people claiming protects more often than not), or a stun that didn't go through. Or a bus that didn't go through. They can claim whatever they want.

@tet rude tbh

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71 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 1:59 pm

Cure wrote:(tet did you not know the single vote limit? did you jump the gun on your vote tet?)

@tet rude tbh

WHAT DO PEOPLE ACTUALLY READ THE FIRST POST?

I didn't jump the gun, I still stand by what I said in thinking you're the best option at current based on what we have for the reasons I said before. I tend to not vote unless I'm sure I can at least put a reason behind it that I can believe in or gain useful information from.

But yeah I didn't remember the one vote limit. I never learned to read.

Why would you vote Ninfia / Rasei? Any solid reason to that or is it just general gut feeling? Both are valid, I just want to know the reasons people think what they think. The fact that I'm the only one to establish reasoning and a vote so far is a little bit weird given that some people sounded like they had pretty firm suspicions.

And you'll get over it. Boot prints wash out usually. Some people pay good money for that you know. I'm trying to be nice to you.

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72 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:07 pm

The reason I protected Sammy was she is my sister and I thought about my first choice and decided against it. The last time I chose to protected Alpaca, she shot me in the back while I was preparing to barbecue Tiki Duck.

I think we should document what we do even if it might give mafia an idea what we might do. That way we have more information to go on.

Claims so far:

Rasei Protected Sammy.
Sammy PROTECTED Alca.
Dran PROTECTED Lux.
Ninfia STUN T3T.
Lux BUS T3tsuya and High Lucas.
Blair BUS ??. <I think that what he meant when he called Lux a public transportation buddy.>
T3T PROTECTED T3T. <Can we really protected ourselves in this game?>


<Did I miss anyone?>


Also I said I wouldn't vote T3T today, doesn't mean I willn't vote in the future. I have played a game where someone was stunned in Night 0, then strung everyone along while she help stole all the money at the school.

As for who I would vote for... is it bad I want to follow what I usually do an vote no lynch?


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73 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:08 pm

@tet a little of column A, a little of Column B. For Rasei it's more gut feelings than anything else (and she posted while I was typing so yay). I'd throw Tiki in the mix, but I've learned my lesson. I really would like blaire and sammie to show up and say something. :T If I felt we could coordinate it, I'd say we go for start9 today.

i know you're pretending you're stepping on me to ignore the fact that im actively stepping on u right now it's okay you can admit that you like being stepped on. be the step't


Rasei you missed me. My action was to stun Ninfia.

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74 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:17 pm

Night Zero Claims:
Rasei PROTECTED Sammy.
Sammy PROTECTED Alca.
Dran PROTECTED Lux.
T3T PROTECTED T3T.

Cure STUN Ninfia.
Ninfia STUN T3T.

Lux BUS T3tsuya and High Lucas.
Blair BUS ??.


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75 Re: Twitch Plays Mafia [HELIX WIN] on Sun Dec 06, 2015 2:25 pm

Sammiya

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I think sharing the information does help weed out the possible lies the mafia might make, personally. If we can at least slightly align the actions/who preformed what action, it might help out the town greatly. I'm reluctant to vote for either Cure or T3t at the moment, even if I'm cautious at the possibility either of them could be mafia. I also am not sure who to vote for in general, and while I do understand that it's better to lynch someone over not lynching anybody there's no one I feel like is 100% mafia, and while we do have more lee-way then normal in regards that the mafia HAS to outnumber the town, mislynching makes me nervous.

I don't like to mislynch if at all possible, so unless something big comes up I'm most likely to vote for start9.


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